I've heard a lot about Warrior Code being a bad tech, especially before getting Monarchy, and I can see that. I also have figured out, some on my own and with some help, that there are a few key techs to grab (Monarchy is #1) depending on your game style.

My question is, when playing SP, which techs do you delay researching as long as you can? Mine would be Flight (I want to keep Colossus), and Nuclear Fission (allowing AI to build MP if they steal it). Of course, those 2 are pretty obvious... I'm sure the CivII experts here can come up with more subtle reasons for avoiding a tech

Beyond that, I know I tend to avoid the tech path leading from Warrior Code until I'm out of options, and I find the path from Map Making tends to be ignored early on as well, due to other priorities.

Them's my thoughts... what's your approach?

STYOM

Usually I'm so far ahead on techs, I'm not worried about the AI beating me to LEO's.

RAH

quote: Originally posted by rah on 04-13-2001 01:55 PM (ONLY IN SP) Invention. Since it stops free techs from huts. Drastically reduced trade bonuses. RAH

I didn't know Invention had any effect of Trade Bonuses. Certainly, Railroad does!?

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SG(2)

quote: Originally posted by Smash on 04-13-2001 04:27 PM yes.Invention and Navigation are trade killers.Or reducers

I have noticed this as well..... it makes no difference in the outcome of the game but i have always wondered why.

I agree Fundy is a dead end tech... but it sure comes in handy when playing a style which, umm, involves a, ah... large number of cities. So I use it a lot Of course, with the Statue of Liberty you'd never actually *need* to research it...

As for Railroad, I personally find the benefits (0 movement cost) outweigh the loss of HG... hopefully I have both MC and JSBC by then!

So far as Communism goes, SixArmedMan... I thought that partisans only appeared if the AI Civ whose city falls had Communism... in other words, getting Communism yourself shouldn't allow the AI to generate partisans. Should it? Anyway I want the UN too much to pass that one up.

Are there any other research-limiting techs (like Warrior Code early on) to watch out for?

Warrior Code is "bad" before monarchy because it delays your progress to monarchy. But by that standard, any tech except the 3 needed are bad. If Warrior Code is epecially bad, it is only so for my game, because I tend to consider the Warrior Code-Feudalism-Chivalry-Iron Working tech tree to be my very last priority (which is why I probably would get creamed in Multiplayer). Warrior Code could also be considered "bad" for my game because I find it unnecessary -- what I really want are Feudalism (so I can research theology and build JSB) and Iron Working (so I can research Gunpowder), and I can generally trade for these techs when the time comes. But there's nothing inherently bad about Warrior Code.

To return to topic: The only techs I delay are railroad (and then only if I have HG but don't have JSB) and Flight (if I have the Colossus). Otherwise, I never "delay" any tech; I research each one when my game plan calls for it, and of course it calls for some earlier than others. However, if possible, I avoid altogether: fundamentalism, recycling, amphibious warfare, mobile warfare, combined arms, robotics (except in OCC), and basically any upper-level tech that isn't on the spaceship-building track except communism (I like the UN).

Later this path also threatens control over the second row as (in my games anyway) horsemen go later than the phalanx.

True Fundamentalism, on the other hand, reintroduces control over the second row (if I am remembering the cost of the fundamentalist unit correctly - it's a while since I went fundy).

Don't agree about Mapmaking. I want Seafaring (and Pottery) pretty much asap both so that I can boost early city growth (and pave the way for WLT-Ds) by building harbours and so that I can get to Navigation with the advent of caravels and the chance to build Magellan's.

OK that path has to compete with Writing which allows the diplo (security from barbs), Bronzeworking (for the Colossus), Horsebackriding (for better defence) and Currency/Trade (for the mighty camel and the chance to build a Marketplace in an HG celebrating city). But in a game that gets off to a good start Mapmaking/Pottery/Seafaring is my (post Monarchy) tech path of first choice.

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quote: Originally posted by airdrik on 04-17-2001 06:49 PM Warrior Code: Pros: Archer unit, Cons: decreased science rate

Warrior Code doesn't decrease science rate. Nothing decreases science rate except having a lot more techs than everyone else. In fact, very few units have and "con" to them; as far as I know; aside from the ones that cancel wonders, the few that do are:

Feudalism - ends the ability to build cheap Warrior units and have a 10-shield step in rushbuilding (pace EST, above)
Invention - decreases trade bonuses, ends the ability to get tech from goody huts
Navigation - decreases trade bonuses
Railroad - decreases trade bonuses
Wheel, Iron Working, Chivalry, Gunpowder, Polytheism, Monotheism, Leadership, Conscription (and Cavalry?) - discovery of these techs by any civ allows barbarians to build the corresponding military unit.

I vaguely remember that there's also a tech -- Communism? -- that decreases the effectiveness of cathedrals, but I never build cathedrals so I don't know what it is or even if I'm right. But I think that's it.

quote: Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly on 04-18-2001 02:34 AM Invention - decreases trade bonuses,

I only learnt this the other day. Do you know the % of reduction?

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SG(2)

SG - It's probably sloppy of me, but I'm just repeating what I've heard, to. I have no idea if the info about invention is even true, let alone how it works.

airdrik - Yes to Guerilla Warfare; also, Fundy allows the barbs to build fanatics, machine tools allow them to build artillery, etc. Seems like it might be easier to enumerate the things they can't build!