The End is near.

you must know (discover, trade for, steal, etc) nuclear fission to be able to start building MP.

However, once one civ has built MP, any civ with knowledge of rocketry can build nukes.

I think it is pretty clear for me now, unless anyone has proof to contradict this.

Good thing, too, because as soon as the AI has Nuclear Fission I work as hard as I can to get Laser... of course it's inevitable that the stupid AI will trade the techs so that everybody can build nukes.

Question for you Civ experts: I usually am 'Supreme' by this point in the game. However, I hate to waste shields on nukes that I seldom use, so I don't build any in most games. As far as reputation goes, does the AI consider an opponent weaker just because they don't have any nukes? I find the AI gets much more aggressive when it feels it has that edge (even though I could have a dozen nukes in a turn if I wanted). Is there any evidence that not having nukes worsens your esteem with the AI?

I have absolutely no idea about what you are asking.

But I remember reading in CIV 1 manual that for the AI, discovering a tech is not enough. You must also produce the new arms and "bring them to bear" if I remember correctly - that is show the new arms to the AI - have them moved around next to them in your turn. (But nukes do not show)

quote: Originally posted by Blaupanzer on 01-27-2001 12:11 AM All you "sleazers" (you know who you are) can take advantage of that.

Good tactics! However, if you are a sleazer - the nearest the AI ever gets to having anything resembling a nuke is the dome on top of a temple.

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SG(2)

quote: Originally posted by Six Thousand Year Old Man on 01-26-2001 07:35 PM In my experience (I play mainly on King and Emperor, and usually ToT these days), the AI will only build MP if it has the prerequisites to build the nukes themselves. So, if the AI discovers Nuclear Fission, it won't start to build the wonder until it has Rocketry as well.

In my experience this is true.. I'm just about to finish my 'OCC bloodlust' (!!) game where in the end the only remaining wonder was MP. The was also an expired 'Oracle' around. All AI's had NF but not rocketry. To my suprise one AI even started to build that obsolete 'Oracle' and finished.Only after a long time when I was quite ahead conquering the AI's Greek started on MP but then he had rocketry. (I captured his MP building city before he completed it)

Thanks for that I did not know a nuke added to the attraction of the 'Nuke trap'. I have always just used lots of units; whatever 'rubbish' I have got by bribe usually.

Actually I never usually build any nukes mainly because I have always believed what STYOM above suggests ie that the AI percieve you as more powerful if you have them. With the way I play only using democracy and always being the most powerful my problem is getting them to attack.

quote: Originally posted by Barington on 01-29-2001 12:28 PM [Originally posted by Blaupanzer ) Actually I never usually build any nukes mainly because I have always believed what STYOM above suggests ie that the AI percieve you as more powerful if you have them. With the way I play only using democracy and always being the most powerful my problem is getting them to attack. Richard [This message has been edited by Barington (edited January 29, 2001).]

There is several ways of starting a war when you are in a democrazy and want to stay democracy. One way is to simply violate enemy territory and send message to their leader to redraw their troops (even though they don't have any troops in your territory). Sooner or later they will go mad and start war with you.

Another way is to pay a third country money to wage war with your 'enemy' and hope that your betrail gets noticed. It's usually noticed after the discovery of espionage, and they usually declare war with you.

Subverting cities (for the double cost) gives you no diplomatic penalties and still, the nation you have stolen the city from get's very upset. It's a great way of getting bad relations with another civ.

quote: <font size=1>Originally posted by Stuff2 on 01-29-2001 01:09 PM</font> One way is to simply violate enemy territory and send message to their leader to redraw their troops (even though they don't have any troops in your territory). Sooner or later they will go mad and start war with you.

Is it necessary to have troops in the enemy`s territory? I can`t ask them to withdraw if they haven`t any troops in MY territory and when I´m in democracy.

I was under the impression that paying a third country to go to war with someone you have a peace treaty with was a violation of that treaty and worsened your reputation. Is this true?

quote: Originally posted by Edward on 01-29-2001 03:46 PM I was under the impression that paying a third country to go to war with someone you have a peace treaty with was a violation of that treaty and worsened your reputation. Is this true?

Not unless they find out

Although you can do this, there is always a high risk (like he said, especially in the modern age) that your victim will find out and an international incident will happen.

You can still take the risk, though...

I have Civ II for the Macintosh and know for a fact that if you have no nuclear weapons — and the AI civilization(s) does/do — you are considered weaker. I base my statement on the fact that AIs who have nukes while you don't typically have a "hostile" or "icy" attitude toward non-nuclear powers. Once you build nukes, though, they "compliment" you for joining the nuclear club and "raise" their attitude to "neutral" and sometimes even higher (think "receptive"). Those powers which continue to not have nukes often become "enthusiastic" or "worshipful" to you, more so if they have no defenses against a nuclear strike.

Regarding using another nation to start a war against someone you don't like, one of the repercussions of being caught includes the collapse of any democratic or republic-based government.

quote: Originally posted by Chainsaw on 01-29-2001 03:44 PM Is it necessary to have troops in the enemy`s territory? I can`t ask them to withdraw if they haven`t any troops in MY territory and when I´m in democracy. [This message has been edited by Chainsaw (edited January 29, 2001).]

No, it's not necessary to voilate their territory but it will certainly annoy them more if you do. And yes u can ask them to redraw troops even if they don't have any in your territory. That is if they think that you have a peace treaty.

I will add two points. One is that finding your enemy's enemy can help. He will often invite you to join in a war and you can accept with no diplomatic penalty. I sometimes maintain a puppet, one city, state so that when it is in a state of war with other civs I can talk to it, get invited to join the war and happily agree. Using a puppet to gain diplomatic advantage is something you can do more extensively in SMAC but it is quite good value for this particular purpose in Civ2 also.

A second point is that among the things which irritate the AI is to block the movement of its units, particularly settlers. Not sure about blocking caravans in this context.

Edit to add this. Say you have just used your howies to take an A1 city and you wish to knock out a number of the partisans which appeared. You will be able to give instructions to any unit already next to an enemy unit but if you move a unit to get into position ready to attack a screen will immediately open in which the A1 offers a cease fire and the doves will accept. So try to manoevre youe units in advance ready for as much of the mopping up operations to be carried out bedfore you have to move a unit as is possible.

So maybe the UN lets you pick on the little guy but gets worried if it's a more influential power.