I'm curious about what more experienced players might do about this. Is rushbuilding, perhaps,. something that should be saved for very particular occasions?

In the last stages of the game, when I am pulling in large amounts of gold, I will often spend 200- 500 gold to rushbuild things, usually Spaceship parts.

And in the normal way of things, I am expecting responses from a wide spectrum of views, which I will then carefully assess and decide that most of them require too much micromanaging for an old crosk like me.

Thanks,

I go for 5 sheilds output first.Then:5 sheilds-buy warrior,5 sheilds-buy phanlanx,5 sheilds-buy archer etc.

Then 10 output-buy all but last row(incrementally)
Then 15 output-buy 20 sheild unit
Then 20 output-buy 30 sheild unit
Then 25 output=2 turn caravans.

1. It's wasted if you have enough shields to build it in that turn anyway (I used to be dumb enough to do this when not concentrating)

2. When you are rushing the only defensive unit in a city and the barbs/enemy are one turn away (because they will take the city "before" your unit is built)

3. Avoid rushing units and caravans if at all possible

I always rush factories, man plants, pollution preventers, universities, sewers; because they are too valuable to wait for. Happy to spend 200-300 doing this.

I also will rush aqueducts, colliseums and temples if the city is celebrating or would be celebrating.

Cost of 1 shield (my eperience only):
unit: 2+({residual shield cost}/20)
improvement: 2
WoW: 4

Doubled if shield stock is empty.

1. It's wasted if you have enough shields to build it in that turn anyway (I used to be dumb enough to do this when not concentrating)

2. When you are rushing the only defensive unit in a city and the barbs/enemy are one turn away (because they will take the city "before" your unit is built)

3. Avoid rushing units and caravans if at all possible

So I ought not to be rush-building anything but wonders or buildings? (Subject to special circumstances, of course.)

1) A cheap unit needed to reinstitute order via martial law. You can usually wait a turn though.

2) SDI - 'nuff said.

3) City Walls after you take a city and expect a counter attack on the next turn.

4) Wonders, especially in a race and most especially when you get that most horrid of messages "The Romans have nearly completed their great project: Michaelangelo's Chapel". Even if you do have enough production to finish the wonder on the next turn, go ahead and buy anyway when you get "nearly completed". There's a "cheat" that always lets the human player get the wonder if it is rush-bought.

quote: Originally posted by Fergus Horkan on 01-09-2001 06:54 AM 2. When you are rushing the only defensive unit in a city and the barbs/enemy are one turn away (because they will take the city "before" your unit is built)

So, would you take a chance with a 2 move unit "luckily" getting in your city?

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Save the whales, collect the whole set!!

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quote: Originally posted by La Fayette on 01-09-2001 10:04 AM ...so true (that's why it is such a bore micromanaging 30 or 50 cities). Rule #3: We say in french: "l'argent est le nerf de la guerre". This means in particular that a strong treasury: a) protects you against low cost bribery b) allows you to invest briskly (IMO the credit balance of 100g that you mention is OK only long BC).

Le nerf de la guerre... Je note fébrilement l'expression... I wasn't aware that money in the bank raised my units' bribe demands. Thanks for the tip.

Anyway, maybe someone can tell me if I'm doing something inefficient here:

I normally play the "democratic ostrich" strategy and am usually wallowing in money (about 6000 g. and rising) about the time I get Adam Smith's wonder. My rule of thumb, then, is to buy any productive city improvement when it's two turns from completion. If it takes more than two turns to complete but costs 100 g. or less, I buy it anyway.

That speeds up the game, but it's very true that it takes a bit of micromanaging. I can tell from the city list, though, which improvements are ready to be financed and which need to wait a turn or two.

Since wonders are costly, I try to have at least one duplicate wonder building at all times. Then, when I have to buy an advance from a rival in order to build a wonder, I don't take such a big hit in the pocketbook. Buy, convert, finance, and, next turn, voilà, instant wonder!

As noted, gold in your bank increases the cost of bribing your cities and units. Don't let your treasury drop below a thousand or so (in the AD period, anyway) unless you've got a pretty urgent reason.

As Slowthinker notes, improvements are cheap to buy, Wonders are expensive, and units vary in between. Therefore, I buy almost exclusively improvements and save my shields for units. I mostly build Wonders from caravans, but if I don't have enough of them, it can be well worth the money not only to beat someone else to it, but simply to have it sooner. Adam Smith, for example, pays for itself pretty darn fast if you have very many cities, and it's worth the extra cost to get it right away. Hoover Dam, happiness wonders, Leonardo -- just consider the payoff versus the extra cost.

I've never derived Slowthinker's formula for the cost of rush-buying units, but it is clear that (unlike improvements) units are cheaper to buy (on a per-shield basis) when they're nearly done. The methodology described by Smash is very helpful. When you can, arrange to have each city produce a multiple of five shields. Rush-buy as needed to get to a unit that's ten shields less than what you really want, and then let the city produce the last ten, so that no shields are wasted. If you can't produce a multiple of five, you can still buy units pretty cheaply by the stepwise method, but it can take kind of a lot of work.

quote: Originally posted by debeest on 01-10-2001 02:11 AM My game usually focuses on WLT_D. I keep luxuries as low as possible much of the time and then crank 'em up enough so that everybody can celebrate for awhile, and I spend most of my money buying whatever improvement a city needs in order to grow: harbor-aqueduct-sewers, contentment improvements, and market-bank-stocks.

That makes sense... but could you elaborate a little on your luxuries policy? You may be on to something I could use.

On rushbuilding, I try to round off production early to avoid losing shield production - say, if a city had been running 3 shields and it grows to producing 5 shields with 12 in the box for a new settler; I will then rush phalanx & archer then switch to settler and let the city produce the last 10 shields.

quote: Originally posted by Sten Sture on 01-10-2001 07:28 PM donwebb - are you familiar with using organized "We Love The President Day" celebrations to quickly increase population? By cranking up Luxuries periodically you can have a bunch of cities celebrate to their food maximum, then back off Luxuries to minimal levels until you get some additional square irrigated/supermarkets built. Repeat process every 15-20 turns.

Wow... taking notes here. Sounds great! How do you know when is the right moment to increase luxuries? When a certain number of cities have no discontented citizens or just one?

quote: On rushbuilding, I try to round off production early to avoid losing shield production - say, if a city had been running 3 shields and it grows to producing 5 shields with 12 in the box for a new settler; I will then rush phalanx & archer then switch to settler and let the city produce the last 10 shields.

Another trick I didn't know. It works because military units cost less than settlers, right? Sounds like a real time-saver.

quote: Also I will rush those early warriors after the first turn so I can use trade squares vs shield production and stay happy.

quote: Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly on 01-11-2001 02:10 AM But lately I've been experimenting with rushbuiling factories as soon as they become available. As soon as I get industrialization, I go into any city that's building an improvement and change the improvement to a factory; then I buy as many as I can, buying the rest on subsequesnt turns. I haven't done the math, but it seems like getting extra shields sooner would pay fo itself pretty quickly. Anybody else do that?

That's a bold building policy, all right. I've obviously been playing too conservatively on the economic front. Normally I wait till a factory costs 100 g. or less to complete before buying it. That usually gives the city a 2- or 3-turn jump on completing the factory. But it saves money at the expense of time and production.

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Scouse Git[1]

quote: Originally posted by jcarkey on 01-09-2001 05:11 PM So, would you take a chance with a 2 move unit "luckily" getting in your city?

Not sure whay you mean. If I have recently founded a city without a unit in it, and the barbs turn up, in my experience they will always find and take the city.

(sometimes they offer to bugger off for some cash)

In the early and middle game, rush-build decisions are premised on whether the benefit I receive from having a unit, building, or wonder several turns early is worth the cost.

For example, I find that at Deity level, Hanging Gardens and Michealangelo provide such immediate and far-reaching benefits that I will rush-build them as soon as they are within striking distance.

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Scouse Git[1]

"Perhaps we should adjust the tax rate, sire." , sigh!

Usually don't have to worry about being bribed, tend to be at peace/allied with everyone at this stage.

Later on, I buy factories if allows a city to produce 20+ shields (25 is better) before Hoover's. After Hoover's the credit cards out for all the larger cities. Sometimes rush-build supermarkets in smaller cities to grow them more quickly (esp if not in Demo), if I'm not very far ahead of the AI.

Rush build man. plants to get over 70 shields. Howitzer every turn from a few cities can soon bring the AI to its knees .

Caravans that are used for trade are not good buy candidates, it takes away from the profit. Caravans built for wonders are good candidates, but only if I'm being pressed by another civ.