Why? Warriors Code lets you build archers, which are good all the way up until Gunpowder as a defensive unit, and up to Knight as an Offensive unit.

So, why's Warrior code bad?

quote: Originally posted by finbar on 12-02-2000 05:27 AM People usually complain about it when they get it out of a hut before Monarchy, delaying the progress to Monarchy.

Warrior Code is a special case, however. If you get it too early, many important techs of later era's (eg Automobile, Computers) will show up as research options much later than they otherwise would, or will disappear for a while if you don't pick them immediately (Flight).

What are these rumours i hear about navigation and was it WC that can mess up your tech choices? It was in another thread and i don't remember what the tech was or why it causes problems?

Archers are good for attacking that early barb threat, on terrain that is more defensive than offensive minded, ie on forests hills etc as opposed to plains and grass. Sometimes a Phalanx just doesn't cut it.

quote: Originally posted by Ming on 12-02-2000 01:00 PM Can you prove this???? I've never heard of this before, not even from Xin Yu

At the moment I have no save file to provide absolute proof (I probably had from one of the OCC games, but I do empty the trash bin now and then ).

It has been reported by several OCC-ers though.
Navigation seems to have a similar effect if it comes too soon.

What I don't know is what exactly is "too soon". Having Warrior Code as a free tech at the beginning is very likely to be BAD - it still depends on the other techs you have.

RAH

quote: Originally posted by rah on 12-03-2000 03:08 AM Getting warrior code early for me has usually been the double wammy. Not only does it slow down getting to monarchy, it usually screws up the selection and makes me choose an extra tech before i can choose monarchy. It usually means not getting to monarchy prior to 2250 of not later. RAH But if you get it a little later, good for working towards the academy in MP games.

Two questions: How early is too early? (or how late is soon enough?) As I recall it, you need Warrior's Code to get Bridge Building, and you need Bridge Building to make road-building really worth while.

Second question, is Warrior's Code the only one that can have deleterious effects if you get it too soon? Should one simply concentrate on getting all the "first row" techs, then go on to the "second row (which will be first by then)?

Yeah, that's three questions but I know you're a nice easygoing lot.

There is 'certainly' some effect - would not like to pin it to early WC necessarily, but that does tally with my experience - that leads to VERY unseemly delays later in the tech tree and in particular the effect that Rib notes in passing the 'once off' appearance of Flight - which we OCCers will probably spurn - only to find it doesn't reappear for a zillion years or so.

Yes this needs testing - possibly another Urban Myth (but then in another thread someone was dismissing starting with MapMaking as an Urban Myth - and we have documentary evidence of that one!)

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Scouse Git[1]

quote: Originally posted by IamSlowwHand on 12-04-2000 11:19 PM To whoever said Warrior Code is bad,

Best Smiley of the season. Who gets the credit? You or Odeo.

I generally go for Bronze Working as my first non- monarchy tech because it provides for defense, allows me to start a wonder, and is en route to Trade. But archers have the advantage of being able to attack that barb that just landed as well as defense. On the down side they cost more than phalanxes, and early on I want to spend shields on settlers.

Also - as Dave V has said many times - the Barb Archer only has a defence of ONE. If you allow the Barb Archer to attack with its strike power of THREE - most of the time your Phalanx is toast!

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However even a fortified phalanx in a city on grass has problems with barb archers.