Please submit more nitpicking micromanaging tips...

So for a city to grow to size 13 say, there are really two checks ie you need both.

quote: Originally posted by tonic on 11-29-2000 04:29 PM Now another tip: Keep a close eye on the science beaker progress via F6. If the number of beakers per turn exceeds the number required to get the next tech, adjust the tax and science ratio. This will give you the extra gold for rush-building etc.

How can you know how many beakers you still need to get the next tech if you already have some in the science box? Do you have to guess or is there a way to say how many are exactly in the box / how many are still missing?

quote: Originally posted by Chainsaw on 11-29-2000 05:04 PM How can you know how many beakers you still need to get the next tech if you already have some in the science box? Do you have to guess or is there a way to say how many are exactly in the box / how many are still missing?

1. You measure the length of the beaker "bar" in the F6 screen; it's about 15.5 cm. That's the beaker-length you need for 1 turn.

2. You read out the number of turns per tech-advance from F6 or F5.

3. Say it's 4 turns per advance. So each turn is equivalent to 15.5 divided by 4 or approximately 4 beaker-lengths.

Now if you have say 14 cm beaker-length on F6 (or 2 cm remainder) you know you have a surplus and can increase the tax:science ratio.

• there is a neat little on-screen ruler available from here called appropriately enough the 'Cool Ruler' which is absolutely invaluable, and
• if you take off all scientists and move the tax rate bar to 0% for science the 'Number of turns needed' is the total number of beakers required for this advance. Caution, several external factors can effect this total such as the technology state of the AI

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Scouse Git[1]

Summing up science beakers:
Smash, what do you mean by run thru?
The point of Darwin relating to beakers is to get 3 advances the turn you get that wonder, and you don't need to keep counting anymore. Or do you, Smash??
I have seen some postings in here about the number of science beakers needed to get a new tech. The discussion doesn't seem to be conclusive. There seems to be a number of intricate(?) factors at play. Has anyone managed to find out which factors yet? If not I guess the ruler has to do in the meantime and using Scouses method of counting (only before you get Darwin??).

Same with food... If you only need 5 food to fill the box... see above

If the food box is full, see above

Excess beakers are lost from the trade bonus so a peek at F6 before the caravan/freight delivers is worthwhile. If you are going to finish an advance next turn w/o the trade route bonus, keep the customer waiting one turn.

I used to hold back on completing a route when cities were just about to grow, too, but experience (not calculation) suggested that the small bonus gain didn't compensate for the loss of a turn or two's trade arrows plus the risk of mishap.

Nice thread Lars-E.

To answer one or two of your questions, Darwin's is a one off wonder. It only affects matters for the player who builds it and for the turn on which it is built. What you do is keep an eye on F6 and then rush build at the moment when you have just made an advance and your beaker count towards the next advance is very low. If you build it in a turn when your beaker count is already high you are losing a chunk of its value.

Turning to the number of beakers needed to advance generally, there are two main influences, how many advances you have yourself made and how your science stands in comparison to the AI. To get to grips with the first point look at the number of beakers needed for your first advance in a game where you found your capital straight away. The beakers needed will be just ten. Look again after you achieve the first advance. The number needed for the next advance will be more. (You will be relieved to hear that in the early turns rulers aren't required!) How many more depends on whether you have got any advances from huts or from exchanging technologies in the meantime. If you haven't, the number needed will be 20. If you have it may be many more than 20. The more advances you get the more the number grows. Incidentally, the bonus techs given before the game starts don't count for these purposes.

The way the second factor works is that if you get ahead of the AI in research (which, by and large, you will) the game penalises you by increasing the beaker requirements a bit more still.

There is nothing much to be done about point one - but you can do something about point two. You can give away techs to the AI. That reduces your lead and stops the beaker count being ratched up so fast.

It is a bit counter-intuitive to do this but if you play a game or two of OCC you'll soon realise the force of the point.

And you can get quite substantial collateral advantages through diplomacy as a result.

quote: Originally posted by Lars-E on 11-30-2000 08:17 AM Tonic, let's say you have a size 14 city and you sell off your aqueduct and sewers...The city's growth stagnates...But what if you keep pouring in food caravans...won't the city grow then despite of lack of aqueduct and sewers??

The answer is still "No". The program seems to check for the landmark 8+ (Aqueduct) and 12+ (Sewer System) everytime the city gets to grow to the next size whether it's through the normal filling up of the food box or through the WLTxD (We love the Consul/President... Days).

quote: Originally posted by East Street Trader BTW, if you do give OCC a try (it's good fun), leave any pride you take in your micromanagement skills at the door along with your six gun. I, for one, got a shock when discovering exactly how casual I really am. And with just one city every mistake is painfully obvious.

quote: Originally posted by tonic on 11-30-2000 04:50 PM Quite so. However if your pride can take the dent, it is a worthwhile detour. I reckon I learnt more in the five months of OCCing than all my previous years of civing!

Tonic, When I first read Paul's OCC guide it was like everything else I had read on civ was NOTHING i comparison. Reading Paul's OCC-guide and posts on Apolyton has changed my game. Before I used to go to all kinds of civ2 pages and read all kinds of strategies/tips, but now I only go to Apolyton. To me it is definitely and absolutely the best civ site ever.

EST, I find that micromanaging is a science of it's own in civ2 play..

Another simple tip:
Anticipate your "We Love..." days when you're planning to expand your city size through these WLTxDs. As it takes one turn after the first WLTxD for the population to grow, start the WL one turn before the important landmark eg the establishing of a Republic government or the building of a Sewer System. You gain (or save) one turn that way.

quote: Originally posted by Ming on 11-30-2000 09:25 AM Look at your cities every turn. If you only need 5 shields to complete something, and the city is producing more, shift your workers around so you only have 5 and take the extra trade or food.

Sound advice. But the truly neurotic micromanager will anticipate the shield excess and eliminate it ahead of time. For example: you're building a settler in a city that produces 6 shields. After 6 turns, you will have 36 shields in the box. Rearrange the workers to produce 4 shields on the 7th turn. Alternatively, on the first turn you could change production to a warrior and rushbuild it. Then change production back to a settler. Five turns later, you have a settler. For the cost of 8 gold, you've shaved one turn off your settler production.

quote: Originally posted by East Street Trader on 11-30-2000 10:51 AM Darwin's is a one off wonder. It only affects matters for the player who builds it and for the turn on which it is built. What you do is keep an eye on F6 and then rush build at the moment when you have just made an advance and your beaker count towards the next advance is very low. If you build it in a turn when your beaker count is already high you are losing a chunk of its value.

Note also that when you get Philosophy from a hut,
if you play OCC you will get a free tech the NEXT turn (if you're the first civ to discover Philosophy). All beakers you have gathered will be lost. So you might as well put science at zero for a turn.

quote: ...look at the number of beakers needed for your first advance in a game where you found your capital straight away. The beakers needed will be just ten. Look again after you achieve the first advance. The number needed for the next advance will be more. (You will be relieved to hear that in the early turns rulers aren't required!) How many more depends on whether you have got any advances from huts or from exchanging technologies in the meantime. If you haven't, the number needed will be 20.

It also depends on the size of the map.

quote: If you have it may be many more than 20. The more advances you get the more the number grows. ... There is nothing much to be done about point one

Well, there is. You can skip the end-of-a-branch techs you don't need, even to the point of not trading for them and taking care not to get them as a gift.
Playing OCC, I especially try to avoid getting Polytheism, Monotheism and Genetic Engineering, which will typically be researched by the AI tribes.

I even postpone trading for techs I don't need now, but will be needing in the future, such as Warrior Code, Navigation (especially these two since if you get them too early they will badly disturb your tech options) and later Conscription and Atomic Theory.

Of course if you don't play OCC your focus is on different techs, but the principle remains the same.

• Polytheism
• Monotheism
• Theology
• Genetic Engineering
• Refrigeration (nice to have though )
• Combined Arms
• Mobile Warfare
• Robotics
• Stealth
• Environmentalism
• Recycling
• Amphibious Warfare
• Guerilla Warfare
• Communism
• Espionage
• Labor Union

1. Make sure you set the game to require "Hit Enter" to end each turn.

2. Before you hit enter, hit f4 and spot any cities in red - they are going to be in revolt unless you do something about it. You especially need to do this if you have gone into revolt, or have military units wandering around in and out of your cities.

3. Super-anal tip: Spin through every city at the end of every turn on the city screen menu. Check to see if the foodbox is about to fill (this allows you to go through quickly). If it is, check the "Happy" info to see if you are about to go into revolt, and make adjustments as appropriate.

However, you could just be finishing, or rush building your temple or the extra military unit, in which case your city will not revolt - it checks after the builds are complete.

4. If you have Hanging Gardens, watch out for the discovery of Railroad by you or someone else. It will get announced intra-turn and you will have no chance to adjust your cities.

Watch out for Theology if you have made the mistake of building the Oracle.

5. The extra worker on forest that is causing unhappiness might be happier working on a trade-producing square. So you can keep everyone busy without unhappiness.

6. If you go for expansionist and a quick republic, build some "spare" warriors to escort your city-founding settlers, to avoid instant unhappiness as soon as your 16th (?? Deity, Large) city is built.

* random factor:

quote: Originally posted by arii on 12-13-1999 12:39 PM ...Second the extra unhappy citizen is randomly assigned to a city. You can check witch city got it in the city screen under happy.

This quote above is from a post at: ../../Forum3/HTML/000798.html

quote: Originally posted by Mercantile on 12-01-2000 05:44 PM Why is it some cities revolt at size three even with three units stationed in the city?

At Deity level, your first cities start with 1 content citizen. However, after a certain number of cities, (and in some cases disctance from the capital is also a factor) you lose this happy citizen, and the first citizen is a red face. This number depends on government type.

From memory, the number is 8 at Despostism, 12 under Monarchy, 16 Under Republic.

This is all well documented somewhere in the Forums, check out the APolyton Great Library.

When founding these cities, you can send out a warrior with the city, or put up with very slow unit building!

Captured cities seem to get a black angry man as the firsst citizen.

up to x - first citizen content
x+1 to 2x - first citizen red (somewhere - not necessarily in the new city)
2x+1 to 3x - first citizen a pirate (somewhere)
3x+1 on first citizen a pirate everywhere

the details may be off a tad, but the key numbers are I believe correct. DaveV - you around??

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Scouse Git[1]

quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits on 12-05-2000 05:00 AM up to x - first citizen content x+1 to 2x - first citizen red (somewhere - not necessarily in the new city) 2x+1 to 3x - first citizen a pirate (somewhere) 3x+1 on first citizen a pirate everywhere

Close, but not exactly right, from my experience. From x+1 to 2x, you will get an unhappy first citizen in two (random) cities for each new city you build. So at 2x, you'll have an unhappy first citizen in all cities. Same thing from 2x+1 to 4x, until the first citizen in every city wears a black hat. Building beyond 4x creates a second pirate in random cities. Note that two luxuries, Hanging Gardens, or an elvis will convert a pirate to a happy (rather than unhappy, or even merely content) citizen. Building beyond 8x cities will cause "super pirates" to start appearing. Super pirates are graphically indistinguishable from regular pirates, but need extra pacification. A temple and two garrison troops will change two pirates to content, but the city will revolt if one of them changes to a super pirate.

At Deity, x is 6 for Monarchy on a small (and, I think, medium) map, and 8 on a large map.

This neat mathematical formula applies only if all of your cities are smaller than size 3 - at some level of population, a single large city will count as two or more small cities. Thus the reports of population growth causing unrest, without any additional cities being built.

Edited to remove references to non-existant "super pirates". What was I thinking?

Edited again to restore super pirates. They do exist, but come later than I originally remembered.

quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits on 12-06-2000 05:55 AM Thanks DaveV - I somehow knew you would have this one down pat

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Scouse Git[1]

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Go Redskins!