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Topic: Top Five Milestones in a Typical Game |  |
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Everyman
Apolyton CS Co-Administrator
Macedonia, Greece
b.02-15-99
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posted October 30, 2000 21:06
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These are five developments in a typical Civilization II game that have an immediate impact on your ability to turn the corner and eventually emerge on top. The list below is geared to Deity level, single player.Monarchy. Has an immediate impact on science output and overall efficiency of cities. Hanging Gardens. Having an automatic happy first citizen enables you to expand away from your capital quickly and efficiently. Michaelangelo's Chapel. This is a major step in getting happiness under control. I generally buy MC and HG if they're within striking distance. Bach's Cathedral is also critical but of less urgency because the AI doesn't seem to prioritize Theology. Statue of Liberty. I generally switch to Communism immediately to get rid of corruption, giving my science and trade an immediate boost. Adam Smith. An underestimated wonder, this helps me to turn the corner on having extra cash, which in turn enables me to bribe cities. Those are my Top Five Milestones. What are yours? |
Rufus T. Firefly
Apolyton CS Co-Administrator
Macedonia, Greece
b.02-15-99
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posted October 31, 2000 02:01
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Interesting idea for a thread. Mine somewhat different. But I think this actually breaks down into two lists: one on Wonders that help you win (there's already a thread devoted to that somewhere) and one on advances which, if you get to them first, help you win. Since you need the advances to get to wonders, I'd say mine are:Bronze working - the first thing I research if I don't get it as a beginning tech; the ability to build the Collosus and defend my cities with Phalanxes are the most important aspects of the first centuries of play. Monarchy - No argument there Monotheism - for Mike's Chapel Invention - for Leonardo's Workshop, which not every seems crazy about here but which I love for two reasons. First, it means I don't have to waste shields updating my own military. And second, since my preferred method of conquest is to incite revolt, it means that when I acquire some other civ's pathetic military (as in my current game, when the Cartheginians were still using archers and legions in 1850 -- yes, A.D.), it get's real modern real quick. Democracy - for a couple of reasons. First, if I can get to it first, I can leap ahead of the other civs in science. Second, if I can get to it first I can generally get to Communism first, which will mean I'll get the U.N. -- the most important late-game wonder for a peace-loving, perfectionist democracy. This list changes if I'm playing bloodlust or if I'm playing OCC, but that's rare. ------------------
Dig trenches, with our men being killed off like flies? There isn't time to dig trenches. We'll have to buy them ready made. Here, run out and get some trenches.
-- Rufus T. Firefly, the original rush-builder |
East Street Trader
Apolyton CS Co-Administrator
Macedonia, Greece
b.02-15-99
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posted October 31, 2000 05:48
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Not sure about 5 milestones but five events the outcome of which is likely to determine strategy for the middle game might be what happens when the first hut is tipped, same for the second hut, what territory is found before founding, which tribe turns up (and in what state of development) when first contact with a rival civ is made and what happens on the first couple of encounters with barbs. |
Shogun Gunner
Apolyton CS Co-Administrator
Macedonia, Greece
b.02-15-99
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posted October 31, 2000 10:02
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I tend to have Gunpowder/Metallurgy combo as a turning point.Gunpowder gives you Musketeers. Good defense, hard to dislodge out of a city with walls. Metallurgy gives you cannon and coastal fortress. You need the fortress if there are navies about. The Great Wall falls down. Anyway, it's my vote for "sparking" a change and turning the corner in the game. |
kcbob
Apolyton CS Co-Administrator
Macedonia, Greece
b.02-15-99
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posted October 31, 2000 11:07
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Five turning points? Hmmm.1. Monarchy. No brainer.
2. Trade. Whether its for a SSC, boosted money/science, or wonder building.
3.  Some kind of happiness whether it be HG or MC.
4. Invention. LW is a must!
5. Mobile warfare/manufacturing. Start cranking out those vet tanks and howitzers! ------------------
Frodo lives! |
Bohlen
Apolyton CS Co-Administrator
Macedonia, Greece
b.02-15-99
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posted October 31, 2000 11:20
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I'd have to agree with the lot of you. Adam Smith's is one heck of a wonder...maybe not the best, but it is still very valuable. |
drake
Apolyton CS Co-Administrator
Macedonia, Greece
b.02-15-99
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posted October 31, 2000 12:53
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How about espionage? Talk about a turning point! A pack of spys let loose into someones homeland can change the face of the game in a matter of a few turns. A good player will be able to halt their enemies production and should be able to tell their strategy as well. You can also catch up and surpass the world in science by stealing techs around the globe. If Manhattan Project has been built, you've got instant suicide bombers too! While they aren't succesful all the time, one good city hit with a nuke can change the tide of an entire war. And its done for a fraction of the cost of a nuclear missile...... |
kcbob
Apolyton CS Co-Administrator
Macedonia, Greece
b.02-15-99
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posted October 31, 2000 15:12
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quote:
Originally posted by drake on 10-31-2000 12:53 PM
How about espionage? Talk about a turning point! A pack of spys let loose into someones homeland can change the face of the game in a matter of a few turns.
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How could I have forgotten that one!!  Definite key to the game. ------------------
Frodo lives! |
SilverDragon
Apolyton CS Co-Administrator
Macedonia, Greece
b.02-15-99
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posted October 31, 2000 16:26
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Monarchy - 'nuff said
Trade - 'nuff said
Mikes - this is when your unhappiness problems finally end. There are other happiness wonders that you need, but Mikes is sort of the finale.
Democracy - You can get a very powerful form of government right away, and the two other really powerful govs are just 8 caravans away.
Industrialization - Once you get factories, you can really start churning out the units |
Hawkman
Apolyton CS Co-Administrator
Macedonia, Greece
b.02-15-99
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posted November 01, 2000 02:03
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In a typical game, the things that give me a giant boost are: Monarchy, Hanging Gardens, Democracy, Industrialization, Cavalry, Fighters, Stealth Fighters. Well, that's more than five and I would like to mention some others, too, but the first four give economic advantages, and the last three provide tactical advantages that keep the AI at bay. However, the thing that blows the AI away is Howitzers, which makes city walls as thin as paper. |
Father Beast
Apolyton CS Co-Administrator
Macedonia, Greece
b.02-15-99
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posted November 01, 2000 06:21
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for me it's:
1. Bronze working. Phalanxes and the collossus
2. Monarchy. get the hel out of despotism.
3. Trade. no brainer
4. Conscription. Riflemen make the best defense, even though I use mech inf. later on, they're not that much better. these guys make a difference.
5. Refrigeration. watch my population soar.
take my examples with a grain of salt. I'm not that good. |
Blaupanzer
Apolyton CS Co-Administrator
Macedonia, Greece
b.02-15-99
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posted November 01, 2000 12:10
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Chronologically, mine would be:1)Monarchy (end inefficiency, expand farther)
2)GL (makes science rate flexible w/o falling behind)
3)LW (ever modern army/navy)
4)Industrialization (Wom Lib [so demo remains an option], transport [arrive with the mostest], factory)
5)AS (flexibility in rates again and more money for bribing) If the game goes on long enough, getting to the bomber before the AIs get fighters helps a lot. Otherwise, I wait 'til howitzers to finish them off. If going for AC, then above paragraph does not apply, more important to get to Superconductor first. Same caveat as Father Beast. I haven't had the nerve to put my style up against the MP stars on this board.
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Mercantile
Apolyton CS Co-Administrator
Macedonia, Greece
b.02-15-99
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posted November 01, 2000 13:38
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1 Monarchy, duh
2 Writing, dips save you units when stacking
3 Trade, uh can you say caravans?
4 Democracy for the Growth and tech leap
5 Calvalry , easily the best unit in the middle game for attacking with. Mix those in with the above mentioned (by someone else) spies and well, nuff said |
KaiserIsak
Apolyton CS Co-Administrator
Macedonia, Greece
b.02-15-99
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posted November 03, 2000 10:09
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1) Monarchy, no doubt abut this one
2) Trade, helps me build wonders
3) Monotheism/Michelangelos chapel, this one is just great
4) Democracy/statue of liberty, gives me the ability to change to communism, which finally eliminates coruption and unhappiness
5) The game is pretty much over now that i´ve got communism, but adam smiths is the last milestone. |
IamSlowwHand
Apolyton CS Co-Administrator
Macedonia, Greece
b.02-15-99
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posted November 03, 2000 19:19
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The very first milestone, IMHO, happens very quickly.
It's when you build your first city, and the location of it. The first city can make or break you.
I like to build first turn if at all possible, but beyond that, I think you need to build on a science helpful sight.
Personally, I like building on a river. Having a whale in city squares is great, too.
For me, the top 5 is maybe like this:
1) Initial city location
2) Exploring, and pushing away the darkness quickly.
If you find another Civ rapidly in their land, they don't know where you came from, but you know where they are.
3) The discovery of Monarchy. I see many people delay the path, and have never understood why. For instance, I may not be the first to Ceremonial Burial or Code of Law, but then I'll be first to Monarchy. Why? No idea.
4) After Monarchy, I usually adjust luxuries to 20% or more if possible. This leads to many city celebrations which are a definite boost.
5) Adam Smith's may be, again IMHO, the most overlooked. I saw that fact referenced earlier in the thread.
When all your improvements are paid for, it does allow bribing, but it makes it harder to be bribed also because:
A) I've got those happy people partying
B) The money on hand
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Oldman
Apolyton CS Co-Administrator
Macedonia, Greece
b.02-15-99
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posted November 03, 2000 20:10
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In my most recent games the milestones would have to be;1) First City Founded
2) Barbarians Sighted
3) Militia Lost
4) Settlers Lost
5) Civilization Destroyed by Barbarians...   |
Smokey tha nuke man
Apolyton CS Co-Administrator
Macedonia, Greece
b.02-15-99
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posted November 05, 2000 00:16
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top five milestones according to da smokes
1> Monarchy-best early government for growth and expansion.
2>Leonardo's workshop-unit upgrades are very, very, very helpful in da smokes opinion.
3>gunpowder- with leo's workshop, this is the most monumental advance that grants a unit upgrade to that point.
4> discovery of space flight- pretty apparent why.
5>2019 AD- the last scoring turn of the game. best bet is to crank the luxury rate up to 100% for the happy people score. (like one final weed smoke out right before the game ends).
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Mercantile
Apolyton CS Co-Administrator
Macedonia, Greece
b.02-15-99
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posted November 05, 2000 00:43
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dude i am onto sure about your style, but nukse are not the answer |
kcbob
Apolyton CS Co-Administrator
Macedonia, Greece
b.02-15-99
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posted November 05, 2000 19:34
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ROTFLMAO!! Been there!
------------------
Frodo lives! |
Matthew
Apolyton CS Co-Administrator
Macedonia, Greece
b.02-15-99
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posted November 05, 2000 23:03
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I like to generalize. It's good to generalize I think, especially when wonders are involved, because if you don't get the wonders you want, you're in trouble.For me, it's (and not necessarily in this order) 1. Getting out of Despotism. 2. getting what I need for a viable defensive strategy 3. Getting wonders I most need for my chosen line of play. (HG if I want to expand early, SSC wonders if tech superiority is my focus, etc) 4. getting the techs, infrastructure or units to prepare to implement my strategy (lots of boats if trade is my focus, some 60 warriors and horses if I'm going to do Leo magic, (I don't try this in double production any more.) etc. 5. Successful and decisive implementation. |
Carolus Rex
Apolyton CS Co-Administrator
Macedonia, Greece
b.02-15-99
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posted November 06, 2000 12:28
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1) I agree with previous poster on this one. Whether I go for Monarchy or Republic depends on a number of things. Level, SP or DP, map size, number of opponents and who they are and so on. Early rep is nice if it's a normal/large map at king level with DP.2) Getting barb leaders early. 150 gold once or twice (or more! ) is a big help. 3) Discovering Trade early. 4) Getting a desired wonder. 5) Conquering (and holding on to) or destroying a key city from the opponent. I haven't rated these events in any particular way. Carolus |
Everyman
Apolyton CS Co-Administrator
Macedonia, Greece
b.02-15-99
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posted November 06, 2000 16:16
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Good point by IamSlowwHand. Initial location can be a game-breaker.I just completed a Deity, 7 civs, raging horde game in which I had a starting position on a slew of rivers and grasslands with plenty of specials. I built my first 5 cities on rivers. The powergraph at the end of the game indicated that I was on top from 3900 B.C. and increased my lead thereafter. |
IamSlowwHand
Apolyton CS Co-Administrator
Macedonia, Greece
b.02-15-99
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posted November 06, 2000 22:09
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Glad you found it helpful.
One thing I left out, which your situation illustrates, is that if you find one river it's acts as a road. If you can find connecting rivers, you have the effect of an interstate highway.
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JESSVG01
Apolyton CS Co-Administrator
Macedonia, Greece
b.02-15-99
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posted November 07, 2000 00:48
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1) Great Library
2) Republic
3) First Alliance
4) Gun Powder
5) United Nations
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Carolus Rex
Apolyton CS Co-Administrator
Macedonia, Greece
b.02-15-99
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posted November 07, 2000 04:26
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quote:
Originally posted by IamSlowwHand on 11-03-2000 07:19 PM
The very first milestone, IMHO, happens very quickly.
It's when you build your first city, and the location of it. The first city can make or break you.
I like to build first turn if at all possible, but beyond that, I think you need to build on a science helpful sight.
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Obviously I also prefer a good city site to a lousy one and if it's real bad I wander until I get a decent one. But sleazing is also an ok way of dealing with bad terrain, so I tend to be less picky nowdays. Popping a few huts wandering doesn't hurt either.  Carolus |
DaveV
Apolyton CS Co-Administrator
Macedonia, Greece
b.02-15-99
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posted November 07, 2000 08:45
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Science is important for your first city, but so is production. Building a city by a couple of fish (my least favorite special) will hurt you in the long run: although the city will produce decent science and food, its lack of shields will cripple your early expansion.My milestones: 1) Monarchy
2) Hanging Gardens
3) Sun Tzu
4) Leo's Workshop
5) Statue of Liberty My games hardly ever last long enough to build Adam Smith... |
HsFB
Apolyton CS Co-Administrator
Macedonia, Greece
b.02-15-99
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posted November 07, 2000 14:50
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1-Bronze Working
2-Monarchy
3-Navigation (with mag's and caravels, world exploring and trading starts)
4-Democracy/SOL
5-Smith's CO. |
Jim W
Apolyton CS Co-Administrator
Macedonia, Greece
b.02-15-99
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posted November 07, 2000 18:15
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I have always had a little nervousness about the overwhelming effects of Leo's Workshop. Mind you, I always try to make sure I get it, but it seems more than a little unrealistic to me. Suddenly, overnight, all your units get upgraded to the most modern? Seems to me that any reasonably competent player, if he gets Leo's, could stomp all over anybody else. Jim W |
Hawkman
Apolyton CS Co-Administrator
Macedonia, Greece
b.02-15-99
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posted November 08, 2000 12:09
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Leonardo's Workshop is somewhat unrealistic, but think of it as a way to offset the AI's production cheats (oops, I mean advantages). The human player has a larger advantage with the Goody Huts, which the AI never seems to handle well (they often iqnore them). Both of these features just add another element to the game, invariably to the human player's benefit. In a multi-player game, there are diplomatic strategies that may decrease the advantage that a player with LW enjoys. For example, several players may form an alliance to contain him, coordinating their military actions - after all, everyone has to hate the guy with LW. And eventually LW expires, so it's a matter of hanging on until that happens. |
Commander
Apolyton CS Co-Administrator
Macedonia, Greece
b.02-15-99
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posted November 09, 2000 09:03
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Top Five?Hmmm.... Republic
Armour Get these two, and I don't need anything else. Commander Blitz |
IamSlowwHand
Apolyton CS Co-Administrator
Macedonia, Greece
b.02-15-99
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posted November 09, 2000 19:10
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So the key is to nail you before armor. |
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