I've played this game to AD 80 so far, and the AIs are killing me on the powergraph. I still think I can win, though (this is a big change from a normal game, where I'd know I would win ).

Note: this game is not for those who think the MGE AIs are too aggressive.

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Scouse Git[1]

Decidedly not good, but it seems I have been a little more fortunate than you Smash

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Scouse Git[1]

quote: Originally posted by DaveV on 09-22-2000 07:49 AM Map size is 50x80, flat. You're free to win any way you want, although I'll be stunned if anyone can manage an OCC win on this setup.

Not that I have time to try atm, but it would seem to me that with 2.42 OCC would be a viable way to win since there isn't an events.txt in that version and one of the main concepts of OCC is getting the AI to do a lot of the work for you. After all, Paul and vik have both pulled of some rather impressive OCC wins (paul on the despotism challenge and vik in the comparison game where the only wonder available was the Apollo Program) Give a good OCCer the UN and loss of the capital isn't usually a major concern. Add in spies (same tech as UN) and threats can be removed by destroying a city. Also a fact to consider, several people won the OCC fundamentalism challenge.

I will go for AC.

I think...

quote: Originally posted by DaveV on 09-21-2000 07:56 AM Note: this game is not for those who think the MGE AIs are too aggressive.

Does anyone with MGE think the AI is not too aggressive?

And I'll try to download this tonight when I get home from work. For some reason, I can't find an unzip.exe anywhere on my PC. Then again, this one sounds like every card in the deck is stacked against you from the git go.

BTW. Smash, did you notice Carolus Rex has resurfaced?

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Frodo lives!

Unfortunately I got killed on two attempts. First time I went straight for Monarchy. The Zulus killed my warriors and took my city. Second time I went for Bronze before Monarchy and surrounded my city with phalanxes on defensive terrain. This time it was the AI bribe-without-diplo cheat that killed me. The Aztecs bribed two of my phalanxes and killed my NON-settler.

kcbob - I think the MGE AI is too aggressive; for its own good! It tries really really hard to capture well defended terrain via the Iranian human wave method.

I'm treadding water.Barely.I also had units bribed off the mountains by archers.They are doubled up now(pike and catapult combos) but I cant do anything.Time is flying by and my civ still struggles for survival.Science is crawling along.I couldn't send a caravan out even if I had the time to build some!

The only good thing is I've been able to do some tech stealing.Not much though as it takes alot of "luck" to get a dip close enough.

Stick a fork in cuz I'm done.

Wow. Sounds like everyone is getting their butts kicked in by this scenario. And deity/MPG players at that, too!

Huh. Well, I'll play the role of vulture and just circle lazily overhead, watching my fellow Apolytoners dying. I'll be sure to make use of the knowledge gleaned from their suffering (and won't repeat the same mistakes). If a Mac version comes out .

I finally delivered some caravans and have routes in all cities now.All cities have walls and barracks as well as temples,libraries,markets and courthouses.2 banks and a university and colliseum in the capitol.I'm 1st in Literacy.Big deal.I'm still aways behind but not as far as I should be.

I must have killed 100+ ai units so far.Sometimes they attack,sometimes they don't.I had a vet knight in American territory parked on a mtn.They would keep putting elephants beside it turn after turn.At home countless units have perished against my walls.My crops grow well with all the blood of fallen ai troops.

Getting my cities bribed was a huge problem but seems to have stopped now due to courthouses and a larger treasury.I lost alot of turns regaining cities.1 city alone was bribed 3 times.Had to rebuild improvements every time.I was patrolling aggressively but 1 always sneaks thru.

Unfortunately,its 1500s allready and I have yet to reach industrialized age.Happily,I am last only in population.

outlook-bleak

So far we have survived until 1 AD, mainly because the Greeks - who have a large army - do not attack unprovoked. My phalanxes and legions (we stole Iron Working from the Romans ) are holding out against the combined aggression of the Spanish, Romans and Zulus; the Vikings have just a single Warriors fortified some distance away and the Americans have yet to show up. Hopefully they will be nice and let my caravans in, since they tend to have the largest cities of this lot.

We are in Monarchy - can't afford Republic with so many units sitting on mountains and still to discover Construction . We also stole Medicine from the Romans, very useful without Shake's ....
City is size 7. We have no money for bribes.

The Romans get a new tech every 3-4 turns, whereas we need 10-12!

I like the core 8 cities, all built on hills! You gave the game away! These "perfectionist" cities are a bit too close together. Obviously the work of a sleazer.

I think I've turned the corner. Now in fundy. The date is 1816 and fighting back!

Congrats on a really good scenario!

All - this scenario is supposed to be difficult; I was trying for a single-player game that had more of a multi-player feeling. That is, a game where you have to build more than warriors for defense, where you can't browbeat the AIs into coughing up massive amounts of tribute, and where you might have to try some new strategies. In the end, though, it's still the same AI that's been the butt of so many jokes on these forums.

Explorers were useful for diplo spotting - but I couldn't stop one city from being bribed.

It's the longest game I've ever played - 10 days! I'm at 1846 but things look good. When I eventually finish I will try and post a rough log.

Current status (deity level, MP version):

It's 450 BC, I have 13 cities. I have traded techs with the AI and have 30 techs in total, including invention. Researching engineering, approx 30-35 turns/discovery (I'm in monarchy).

I've demanded a heck of a lot of tribute (highest was 650 gold, I think), how is that possible with MP version and such a weak civ??? Treasury is 1760 gold. I was offered 450 gold + BW if I declared war on the vikings (which I did).

Have barracks in three or four cities, cranking out vet crusaders. Contact with all civs, only at war with vikings and americans.

I still don't get the amount of tribute...

(Playing version 5.3 on a PC)

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Ok, here it comes...

Do I have to save the note pad documents in the MP directory as well?

Well, I didn't. Only saved the .scn file...

Sigh.........

The eastern front was different. Not too long after Monarchy Viking raiders were spotted. One or two scouts at first, then an army of chariots and catapults! A garrison, with barracks was established on the silk at (loc 60, 52). Here the vet chariots killed and recovered in alternate turns. The occasional Roman elephant also complicated matters. If the AI could co-ordinate attacks, history would have been different! Research had to be decreased to finance a growing army. Money was tight as the upkeep of temples drained the treasury each turn. Even with the temples unhappiness was almost out of control. To add to the troubles - yellow Spanish shields appeared on the north-eastern horizon, followed by streams of Zulus. Two garrisons were formed on suitably defensive terrain at (loc 58, 44) and (62, 46). For more than the next millennium these towns were going to be busy! Life expectancy was short in both of them. Both had explorers tracking down the deadly diplomats. Fortunately, only one city ever succumbed to bribery.

By 800AD things were near breaking point. The defences against the Vikings, Romans, Spanish and Zulus were just holding off aggression. The guy on the mountain by the Greek border was still there, but now knights were taking his picture! It was only a matter of time before the Apolyton Empire collapsed. A total of 23 cities, none bigger than size 4, had struggled to research a total of 22 techs. Worse still; Chivalry was not amongst them. With the belief that this state of affairs would only last another couple of centuries before technologically superior forces swamped the defences, a cunning plan was needed!

In the list of the top five cities, the Americans had three represented. Heading the list was New York, boasting a population of 13. They had sanitation; but what other goodies were on offer? Light blue activity had been limited to the occasional horseman or caravan originating from the unexplored far west. There was speculation about them being a democracy, perhaps finding it difficult to maintain forces in the field of battle. As yet no AI cities had been conquered, so if the game was to turn in favour of the Apolytoners, large perfectionist cities were a mouth-watering prospect. Diplomats were already charting the area believed to be American. Their mission was to establish an embassy and to steal advances. Meanwhile, back at the ranch, the small surplus of troops and caravans were ordered to head west.

Shortly after making these decisions, events overtook the grand plan. The Greeks killed the warrior on the mountain and the terrain on the western borders turned orange. Luckily extra troops were already heading in that direction bound for the US. A secure city with walls and barracks (loc 31, 37) deflected some of the Greek advance, but they had some roving marauders heading for poorly defended interior towns. Securing the realm from this invasion took centuries. Eventually, a fort on the old warrior's mountain contained the incursions. In the meantime diplomatic activity had stolen the key Chivalry advance, and had revealed the Americans to be a dozen techs ahead.

The first real offensive success for the Apolytoners came in 1510 with the capture of New Orleans. As the purple flag was raised on the city hall a choice of technologies was offered. It took several milliseconds to pick Steam Engine! With ironclads the game would be hard to lose, even if victory was not yet certain. Several of these ships were rush-built. Their mission was to disrupt the Spanish, Zulu, Viking and Greek supply lines. This they did with great success, alleviating the pressure on the border garrisons.

During the Sixteenth Century the main continent of America had been revealed, groaning under its vast cities. Caravans to these places and continued theft accelerated technological advances. The 1620 Revolution led to Communism and a relief from unhappiness. There was great pleasure in scrolling down F4 making entertainers redundant! The next objective was Espionage for veteran spies, but the ultimate goal was Fundamentalism, if conquest was to be achieved before 2000.

In 1756 the High Priest was in control. All those temples of the early years began swelling the treasury with tithes to form a considerable war chest. Apart from New Orleans no other city had been captured. There seemed little point in moving out from comfortable garrisons to capture meagre towns stuffed with units, until the time was right. Instead the Empire was railroaded in readiness for the logistics of conquest. The focus of expansion zoomed in on heartland America. Under defended huge democratic cities were ripe for the taking. As each one fell the position on the Powergraph improved a point! Washington was preserved for decades because of its repeating coal demand.

In military terms, the Greeks and the Vikings were the largest threats. These nations could be bribed but the price had to be made reasonable. Here the spies worked hard. First they would investigate, then sabotage the temple or colosseum. Once in revolt, the courthouse would have to go, then the place could be bought. It was heavy on spies but the price was cheaper than full rate bribe tariffs. It was only during this exercise in bargain buying that I realised that Vet Spies bought at cheaper rates!

By the early Nineteenth Century the conquest bandwagon was unstoppable. Each new city gave an extra base for production and wealth. In 1856 the final Spanish cities fell to a surprise paratroop attack. They were blowing away Phalanxes!

Thank you DaveV for an engrossing scenario! Now can I have my life back … until the next one!?

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SG (2)

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Scouse Git[1]

My game seems to have developed differently.The Yanks have been extremely aggressive with units.EVERY civ has.Especially those darn diplomats.

I saw I was getting nowhere so I went on the offense and jacked up taxes and built diplos.Bribed 2 good cities for a small fortune only to have them both bribed back the NEXT turn.ARGH!

At the start,I barely had laid down a city near that silk when it was bribed.I finally said "@#$% it" and went Democracy but that put a wrench into military efforts.The ais have gone Demo now also so bribing is gone.It was VERY expensive anyway.

I couldn't get established early and the downward spiral just continued after that.I been so swamped by units that I actually have to pre-work settlers inside cities to build irrigation!

I'm very close to restarting.Dam it.

Less than an hour later,I was back at it

Did the exact same thing but no dips showed up this time.I explored more of the map by 1000bc than I did the whole game first time thru.It was pretty sad how little exploring I did in game#1.

420ad,12 cities flourishing and it is me doing the harrassing now.More cities to come but the riot factor is kicking in.

I lowered science in an effort to get the ai to slow down and it has worked quite well.Most science is coming from caravans and diplomats.Can't be more than 3 or 4 techs left to steal...er...discover and I will be all caught up.

Almost no improvements this time.I figured why build em to have them bought up?Just barracks and a temple here and there.Settlers and my best military units.Right now that is knights,muskets,catapults and diplomats.Not ICSing though.Not true ics anyway.I sent settlers with small armies to found chokepoint "colonies".Building the cities in such a manner as to have any enemy dips that sneak thru run out of moves just before getting next to it.

Looking very good.The only difference is not seeing those early diplomats.What a difference.

Well...I'm in the tank again.I can't keep my cities from being bribed.All the way back to 5 again.Of course bribing cities got the ai my best military techs if they needed them.I'm more or less broke and have been all game.I'm starting to think only true ICSing will win this game.Or some strategies fron Xin Yu.I did a little "size 5ing" but its hard when you have to constantly build units.