(a-c same as ICS)
a) Build two cities close to each other, on high food production squares.
b) Build a settler in city #1, and a warrior in city #2 for exploring (maybe 1 or 2 more for martial law).
c) Use the city #1 settler to build city #3.

d) Build warriors in city #1 for martial law.
e) meanwhile build a settler in city #2 and another in city #3.
f) as soon as city #1 grows to size 3, add the two settlers to city #1.

g) change all 5 citizens in city #1 to scientists until food is exhausted, then put 4 of the citizens back to work on grassland for one turn (to get at least 1 food reserve in food box). Change the 5th citizen to an entertainer if necessary. Then change them to scientists again.
h) city #1 start to build temple (if not available build barracks then switch to temple when the tech is available).

i) repeat this cycle: continue to build settlers in cities #2 and #3. Use the settler of city #2 to build city #4, then use the settlers of cities #3 and #4 to add to city #2 after it reaches size 3.

With this strategy you'll get Monarchy faster since each size 5 city will produce 18-20 science every two turns (16 when all 5 are scientists, 2-4 when put them back to work). That's 9 sciences per city per turn. Remember a size 2 city usually only has 1 science output per turn (unless on specials). Thus one size 5 city will be equivalent to 9 size 2 cities in science output!

quote: Originally posted by Xin Yu on 09-08-2000 08:28 PM g) change all 5 citizens in city #1 to scientists until food is exhausted, then put 4 of the citizens back to work on grassland for one turn (to get at least 1 food reserve in food box). Change the 5th citizen to an entertainer if necessary. Then change them to scientists again.

It's the part about putting 4 of the scientists to work for one turn that escapes me. How do you mean to avoid the drop in population by making them work grassland for one single turn if the food storage is exhausted? Do you add another settler to the city after it drops to size 4, or did I miss something else?

Oedo: it works better for 1x production. You trade your productivity (e.g., 2 food, 1 shield, and 1 trade if worked on roaded grass) for a specialist, which gives 3 science bults or 3 golds. The benefit is that you have full control of the distribution rate (you can have in effect 100% tax or 100% science under any government form), and there's no corruption.
For 2x it is less favorable since your productivity is doubled (a grass gives 4 food, 2 shields, and 1 trade, a forest, gives 2 food and 4 shields) but a scientist still only has 3 science bulbs. I still do it in selected cities for faster wonder building.

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Scouse Git[1]

Adam Smith: Yes, if you can put a worker on a special which gives more than 3 trade arrows, it is not wise to hire him as a scientist (unless you consider corruption effect ).

Legman: Let me give an analogy.

ICS is like a capitalist trying to expand by buying out other small businesses. He spends some money to buy a small business (building a settler), but never tries to expand it (never let the settler's city grow). Instead, he squeezes money from the small businesses in order to buy out more small businesses (let the settler's city build more settlers). As a result, his whole empire consists of a lot of small businesses.

Perfectionist is like a capitalist trying to expand by building a store chain. He starts a business, build it well, then use the surplus to build another, and build it well, then build the third, .... As a result, his whole empire consists of a handful of well maintained businesses.

Size-5 is in the middle of the two. Like ICS, you buy out small businesses, but instead of squeezing its money for buying other businesses, you use the exploited money to build up your original company. Then you buy more small businesses and squeeze money from them to build up your second company. As a result you'll have some well maintained businesses and some small businesses.

I've never tried anything like this, but once I'm back from my vacation I'll try it out in a new game and see what happens. Right now, I've got other turkeys to shoot! Gotta love that phrase...

What exactly is a high food square.

By the time I build all those settlers and warriors I would normally be in Monarchy and be close to finishing a wonder.What is the time table on this?

Is this for mp?What about barbs?How do hold my size fivers with warriors?

I'm a little unclear.

In the simple form a specialist is an entertainer. When one of your cities falls into disorder you can take a worker off the map in the city window and make an "Elvis". This usually restores happiness to the place. This can be done if your city has a population of one. (It often has to be done if you are sleazing!)

However, when a city has 5 or more population, you not only have the option of making an entertainer, but also taxmen and scientists. (You first click a worker off the map and he becomes an "Elvis", click the "Elvis" he then turns into a taxman, click again and you get a scientist).

I agree that balancing food and shield is a tough task. You can either build a warrior in city #2 and move it to #1 for martial law, or you can consider build a warrior in #1 first before building the wonder.

Rah: thanks for trying. You can turn on the flag for 'food deficit cause famine' warning so that you don't forget to swich .

In 2x1x I recommend that you build size 5 cities for wonder building. It will be twice as fast as small cities .

1. You are no longer constrained by the 50, 60, 70, or 80 percent science limits in place prior to having democracy. This is what makes this a very powerful early game strategy. Alternatively, imagine having fundy without the 50 percent science limit.

2. Once you get a number of cities to size 3, you can use Mike's plus a "we love" day to get the remaining cities to size 5 in a hurry. (You will generally need one trade route per city to do this.)

3. Have each size 5 city set up three domestic trade routes to your super science city. With a size 15-20 SSC each route will pay about four trade per turn continuing bonus, for a total of 12 trade per city. Since the continuing trade bonus effectively depends on the sum of trade generated in the origin and destination cities, once your SSC gets up to 15 or 20, the size 5 city contributes essentially nothing to the total. Therefore, you keep the 12 trade per city bonus even when the entire population of the size 5 city is off researching science.

4. Add libraries to your size 5 cites for even more fun.

5. But the most amazing thing is what this strategy does for your total population. Cities cannot be built adjacent to each other, so in a completely packed ICS pattern cites can only be size 3 at most. eg:
12121212121212
c3c3c3c3c3c3c3
12121212121212
C3C3C3C3C3C3C3
12121212121212
c3c3c3c3c3c3c3
etc
where c and C are cities.
ICS cities will usually only be size 2, so you are wasting 25% of the available squares.
Now consider a size 5 strategy. On the first turn the c cities use their entire population to research, while the C cities replenish their food supply using temporarily unoccupied squares normally worked by the c cities. On the next turn they reverse. By doing this you can support a population that is almost twice the number of available squares!

Now for the down side:
1. No matter how careful you are you will, I repeat WILL, screw up and forget to turn some of the cities back to food production, thereby losing a population point.
2. The micromanagement associated with using this strategy for more than just a very short period of time has driven me absolutely mad MAD MAD I TELL YOU BWAHAHAHAHAHA......

Like Adam, I find the micromanagement drives you crazy! But I think it helps to work the cities in pairs, one on science, one off. I'm now looking at how effective the food caravan trick will be between the pairings. City A always supplies to B and B to A.

City 2 builds 1 warrior then 2 or 3 settlers.Then either a phalanx or wonder if units from huts have been found and returned.

If I find gold before capitol then 1 settler is rushed as much as techs allow while settler2 explores or roads.Then build.

GREAT JOB AGAIN!

Rah used it in well and made a great come back in the science race. I didn't have many 5 plus cities at the time, but I used it quite effectively too.

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April Cantor: Sire, in order to expand further we must first gain favor of the King

SCG: darn, I've never really got the hang of that tribute thing, guess it will be a long time until i make prince

Just a thought.

now see, i agree with that. what fun is playing all night trying to squeeze out every single little freakin trade arrow?? but in MP you have to because everyone else is.

quote: Originally posted by Sten Sture on 09-11-2000 01:53 PM I haven't MPed much and not in 12 ferret generations, but does the GL pick up dupes that have already passed? Like Monarchy? I would assume that everyone is going to get it pretty soon, and I doubt if GL completion will beat Monarchy discovery...?

The GL makes a check each time somebody discovers a tech and if this wasn't the first tribe to discover it, you get it too. So if everybody else already has Monarchy before you finish GL, there will never be a check and it will never give it to you.

Btw I just played an OCC game in which only one of the AI tribes had discovered Monarchy by the year 1500 AD ...