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Topic: Barbarian oddity? |  |
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Ming
b.02-15-99
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posted June 29, 2000 08:40
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Great job William Keenan... I will add to the "no barbarians until the human player starts a city" theory. I've also been playing the nomad challange. And in all the games I played, I've never seen a barbarian appear until I started my first city. One game, I was on a large land mass, with no other civs, so I never got a city. It took me to about 500 BC to map the entire land mass, and I didn't see a single barb! |
William Keenan
b.02-15-99
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posted June 29, 2000 10:03
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quote:
Also bereft of notions on the ship borne chariots. Tempted to take to cheat mode and try to duplicate - trouble is can't help but think William's researches will have been thorough and time consuming.
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Yes it took hundreds of hours to complete the research. The worst part was NOT playing the game. I could not allow myself or the AI to discover any techs since that would invalidate the tech I was testing. Production and city founding were like-wise curtailed as that would lengthen the whole testing process. Two notes on the no barbs before the first city thing.
In my experience the civ engine does not differentiate between AI and human players when it resolves trigger occurrences. In other words, if the civ engine is waiting for something to happen like the founding of the first city or the discovery of a particular tech, it does not care whether it was the human player or the AI that triggered the event.
There are no rebels or pirates for the first 15 turns of the game. Given that both points are 100% true it is extremely unlikely that no city will be founded in the first 15 turns. Therefore, if there is a rule in the civ engine that says no barbs until a civ builds a city then it is extremely unlikely that any such rule would ever be applied. |
Ming
b.02-15-99
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posted June 29, 2000 10:51
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William KeenanIt has to be written in the program that random barbs won't appear before a "human" lays down a city. I find it hard to believe that it is just "chance" that my brother and I haven't seen any barbs before laying down a city in our many attempts at the nomad challange. Now granted, unless you are trying one of the strange challanges, you would probably never run across it... but I'd be willing to bet that that is the case 
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Smash
b.02-15-99
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posted June 29, 2000 12:43
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I've tryed a few "other" nomad games to see if I could get 1 continent and I have seen barbs before my first city.A few ai cities were swamped with barbs.In fact,twice I got multiple horses from huts before my first city.Once 1250bc and once in 575bc.Shocked the heck out of me.Must be a cutoff point on good things only from huts before 1st city. |
Ming
b.02-15-99
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posted June 29, 2000 12:58
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And then again, I've lost a few bets in my life...Smash, are you playing with the Gold Edition or regular CivII? Just asking |
Smash
b.02-15-99
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posted June 29, 2000 16:59
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These games are with MAC single version.Manual says "contains all fixes and updates in 2.42". |
Ming
b.02-15-99
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posted June 29, 2000 17:25
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I wonder if that makes a difference... has anybody using the MP PC version seen this happen? |
Smash
b.02-15-99
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posted June 29, 2000 17:43
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I think it might.I have no problems with the barbarian papers.It is well done and must have been some tedious work.But I see things that aren't supposed to happen.1250bc is not all that late really but "poof" there were 2 barb horses. One AI city I found around 2800bc had at least a half dozen barbs swarming around.There were 2 leaders which led me to think they could not have been tipped from huts. |
Ming
b.02-15-99
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posted June 29, 2000 19:36
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Well... we have seen differences between the SP version, and MP edition. And LORD KNOWS we have seen differences between the Mac and PC versions I agree! The Barbarian Papers is a brilliant piece of work, and should be must reading for anybody that plays Civ. As Rah mentioned, I knew a ton of it just from that fact that I have played a "million" games...
But it was still helpful! |
finbar
b.02-15-99
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posted June 29, 2000 20:35
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Oldie but a goodie.  Yesterday, bored, I started a SP game. Tipped a horseman out of a hut. Very nice. Built my capital. One turn later, with the horseman and second settler elsewhere, barb horsemen appeared and stomped my capital. End of story.  ------------------
finbar
Mono Rules!
#33984591 |
Ming
b.02-15-99
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posted June 30, 2000 07:11
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Finbar... and what version are you playing?Normally, if you only have built one city, the barbs can't beat it... I've seen a lowly warrior fortified in a grassland city defend against hordes of barb horseman???? |
Paul
b.02-15-99
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posted June 30, 2000 07:22
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Ming, he said that it was the turn after he built his capitol. So most likely he hadn't built a defender yet and the barb just had to walk into an empty city.
[This message has been edited by Paul (edited June 30, 2000).] |
Ming
b.02-15-99
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posted June 30, 2000 07:46
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Yeah Paul... I misread his post. I thought he had his non horse in his capital!Just another "senior" moment |
finbar
b.02-15-99
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posted July 02, 2000 02:17
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Yeah, it was the turn after I built, the warrior hadn't been built, and the horse was elsewhere. Probably posting on the OT forum. But even if the warrior had been built, it's no absolute guarantee the capital would have survived. As I've posted elsewhere at various times, I've lost a defended capital to the barbs when it was my only city. Just as I've also seen single warriors (in my capital and only city) withstand the most horrific onslaughts. Sometimes the computer decides your capital (and only city) is impregnable, very occasionally it doesn't. ------------------
finbar
Mono Rules!
#33984591 |
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