|
Author
|
|
Topic: What is Capitalization? |  |
|
Campo
b.02-15-99
|
 |
posted May 17, 2000 07:48
   | 
 |
 |  |
Can someone provide a clear explanation of Capitalization? I've read the documentation but still don't understand it.First, exactly what is it and/or what is it for? Second, a couple times when I've tried to "build" it, it never seems to get completed. The menu says "Capitalization - 12 turns (for example), and I choose it. Then I build it for about 30 turns, it seems, and it's still not done. What does it take to complete it? |
Ming
b.02-15-99
|
|
posted May 17, 2000 07:51
|
|
| |
Capitalization doesn't build anything.What it does do is give you one gold for each shield that the city produces. It is meant to be used when you having nothing else that you want to build, or if you need quick gold. It will never be "completed" because it continues providing gold as long as you are in it. It shows a number of turns to completion, for consistancy purposes only  |
Oldman
b.02-15-99
|
|
posted May 17, 2000 08:31
|
|
| |
Capitalisation is Civ2 is a representation of how a society will perform should it lend itself to totally capitalist ways. No longer building boats, or equipment. Not building any one specific thing such as a library, colleseum or contributing towards a larger goal like a wonder. Where the city just becomes a capitalist city, full of shopping centres, macdonalds, clothes shops and the like with no other use but to produce money!!! But don't go getting me started on this, ok...
So, basically it's just as Ming said!!!
|
DaveV
b.02-15-99
|
|
posted May 17, 2000 08:41
|
|
| |
An interesting thing about Capitalization is that it "freezes" the shields in your box. So if you have 200 shields in the box, switch to Capitalization, then switch back, those 200 shields are still there waiting... |
Oldman
b.02-15-99
|
|
posted May 17, 2000 08:59
|
|
| |
What did i tell you!!!! capitalization is the Devils work?!?!?   |
rah
b.02-15-99
|
|
posted May 17, 2000 09:10
|
|
| |
DaveV, I was hoping that no one would mention that little detail. We can now expect Venger to come and announce that it is a cheat or a crutch for weaker players. RAH
The ferrets are feeling mischievous |
Oldman
b.02-15-99
|
|
posted May 17, 2000 09:14
|
|
| |
Can we get Ming to delete this thread so Venger doesn't find it? "Miiiiinnnnnggggggggg!!!!!!!" are you out there???? ha ha!! i bet Vengers already forming his synopsis for the novel he'll end up writing about it?!?!
Edited: Curse my stupid touch-typing!!??!
[This message has been edited by Oldman (edited May 17, 2000).]
|
Ming
b.02-15-99
|
|
posted May 17, 2000 09:17
|
|
| |
I'm here And it doesn't matter if he sees it.
I look forward to all intellegent responses that add to the debate. These forums are meant to be a place to exchange ideas... knowledge... blah... blah... blah... snore... |
My Wife Hates CIV
b.02-15-99
|
|
posted May 17, 2000 09:38
|
|
| |
I sometimes get myself into slight problems when I place a few large cities into capitalization mode. All of a sudden I find myself needing that income! |
Ming
b.02-15-99
|
|
posted May 17, 2000 10:05
|
|
| |
I hear you MWHC. Sometimes, when I'm waiting for the next advance so I can build something new, I will put my cities with nothing better to do into capitalization. Then, when I discover the needed tech to build what I want, I really miss the money that was being generated by those cities |
Campo
b.02-15-99
|
|
posted May 17, 2000 10:14
|
|
| |
Okay thanks, I've got it. Simple enough now that I know.Has anyone analyzed the tradeoff between capitalization and caravans/freight? When would it be advantageous to go to capitalization (as opposed to building caravans/freight and getting the trade bonus)? |
Oldman
b.02-15-99
|
|
posted May 17, 2000 10:24
|
|
| |
It would have to depend upon your distribution network!!! You really want to have 3 trade roots set up for each city anyway early on (ideally), if you could get your caravans to a city a fair way off quickly it might be worth it!! check out this site http://ltssg3.epfl.ch/~winkler/civ2.html it's got a couple of equations for the trade earned and cash bonus from trading!!!Now your homework for this evening Campo is to write 500 words on which is a beneficial method of raising cash and why!!  |
Scouse Gits
b.02-15-99
|
|
posted May 17, 2000 10:59
|
|
| |
The simplest possible analysis of 'value for money' from Capitalisation would suggest that in general it is a big NO NO.In Cap you get 1g per shield, thus you can choose between 50+ gold or 1 caravan (where 50+ indicates the number of shields you need to produce to get one caravan - I guess the worst case would be a production of 49 shields ) Now that caravan is worth what?
200g if used to help build a wonder or a SS part, 125g if disbanded for some other unit, 100g (? not quite certain of this figure) if disbanded for a city improvement or trade, gold & beakers if used as a trade-route creator. I suspect even a lowly food caravan used as such (i.e. to provide food) will have an indirect value of more than 50g. However, all the above can be irrelevent if you have a need for cash now... Good civin'   ------------------
____________
Scouse Git[1] "CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor |
Steve Clark
b.02-15-99
|
|
posted May 17, 2000 11:05
|
|
| |
In most of my total warfare games, once it starts, I typically have half of my cities in Capitalization and the other half building military units. Esp. under the Fundamentalism crutch , I can easily build 6-10 attack/spy units per turn when I'm getting 1000+ per turn from Capitalization and tributes. |
Ming
b.02-15-99
|
|
posted May 17, 2000 11:08
|
|
| |
I will only use it as a very short term money fix, or when there is ABSOLUTLY nothing I want to build for a turn or two, or if I just want to ignore the city for the rest of the game |
DaveV
b.02-15-99
|
|
posted May 17, 2000 11:20
|
|
| |
SG1 - sorry to be pedantic with a pedagogue, but I have to correct your math. When a caravan is disbanded for another unit or improvement, it only contributes 25 shields to the box. So it would be worth approximately 61 gold and exactly 50 gold in those respective cases.A trade caravan is almost certainly going to be worth more than the equivalent gold from capitalization. Food caravans are questionable. |
Bohlen
b.02-15-99
|
|
posted May 17, 2000 11:24
|
|
| |
I generally only use Capitalization as a city management and shield saving tool right before Apollo's is built. When a city builds a unit or improvement a few turns before I am able to build spaceship parts, I'll use Capitalization in that city so that know that city is ready to build parts. This way I'm not penalized for switching from one type of production to a spaceship part and I get some extra money too. Instead of wasting shields, I'm making a little money while waiting for Apollo's.------------------
Proud Warrior of the O.W.L. Alliance |
Scouse Gits
b.02-15-99
|
|
posted May 17, 2000 11:30
|
|
| |
DaveV - I stand corrected - thank you - a stupid mistake.------------------
____________
Scouse Git[1] "CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor |
The Mad Monk
b.02-15-99
|
|
posted May 17, 2000 12:33
|
|
| |
What gets me is that Capitalization occurs as late in the game as it does; by the time it arrives, caravans usually do out produce in gold. Now, if Cap occured, say, with trade (at the same time as caravans), or even economics, it would pose a harder choice.BTW, I also use what I call the poor man's cap: if I have a city that produces a lot of shields, but little trade (rnedering caravans less than effective), and I have nothing better for it to build, I'll have it build a barracks, sell it, build another, etc. The gold for shields rate is identical to cap. Anybody else do this? |
Campo
b.02-15-99
|
|
posted May 17, 2000 12:54
|
|
| |
Seems like Scouse Gits and DaveV did my homework for me. That frees me to start another OCC game tonight. |
War4ever
b.02-15-99
|
|
posted May 17, 2000 12:58
|
|
| |
mad monk...... i do this as well, but its not always planned that way  Capitalization is great in Fundy, when your building up a large treasury to go shopping with..... Gee let me see...... i will march over to Germany and buy that BMW producing city and next, i am off to China for some cheap labour or perhaps India... Oh and i need some new electronics, i better buy that japanese city as well |
Smash
b.02-15-99
|
|
posted May 17, 2000 13:29
|
|
| |
I remember the very first game I played.Didn't have a clue.The ai was building all these wonder of the world things so I decided I should build one.You guessed it.The wonder of Capitolization.It came late game so I figured it must be a good one. Still waitin to finish it. |
Campo
b.02-15-99
|
|
posted May 17, 2000 13:38
|
|
| |
In my (first and so far only) OCC game, which the Egyptians won, my spy investigated a couple dozen of their cities and all were doing capitalization. I guess they were increasing their treasury while waiting for the necessary techs for AC. |
Ming
b.02-15-99
|
|
posted May 17, 2000 13:52
|
|
| |
I've used the old barracks trick many times before. Early in the game, when you have enough defenders, don't want to build another settler until the ones you have already kicked out have started cities, and have nothing else to build, barracks can at least provide a little extra money.
And I've also used the old build some spies to disband as the poor mans caravan wonder building trick.You do what you have to sometimes |
Oldman
b.02-15-99
|
|
posted May 18, 2000 10:45
|
|
| |
Last game i played, i disbanded all my defences one at a time. To give me a start on my spaceship modules, so i could rush buy them!!!! I spent about 3 turns with my only city (occ) undefended, just to shave about 6 years off my landing time!!!! |
Scouse Gits
b.02-15-99
|
|
posted May 19, 2000 05:49
|
|
| |
City Defences in OCC, Oldman, Shame on you!
------------------
____________
Scouse Git[1] "CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor |
Oldman
b.02-15-99
|
|
posted May 19, 2000 06:17
|
|
| |
it was only a couple of militia and a legion i found in a hut?!?!? is that really sooooo bad?!?! it's not like i wasted 40 years building all sorts of marines or riflemen!??!?! |
Scouse Gits
b.02-15-99
|
|
posted May 19, 2000 06:36
|
|
| |
Sorry, I thought you meant Defences not Defenders - I'll let you off the odd hut found unit... ------------------
____________
Scouse Git[1] "CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor |
Oldman
b.02-15-99
|
|
posted May 19, 2000 07:06
|
|
| |
Give me some credit per-lease?!?!? I know i do some stupid things, building 2 aquaducts, forgetting to build a colleseum, but city defences, that's almost blasphemous in occ?!?!?!!?
I think we have gotten slightly off the topic of conversation here now, i mean from capitalism to religion? Interesting combination, kind of surreal though... |
SCG
b.02-15-99
|
|
posted June 06, 2000 20:00
|
|
| |
maybe I'm missing some inferred points here, but while food caravans are brought up, no one seems to be pointing out that sometimes, they are the only caravan option. I've had cities where i've built 5-6 food caravans in a row before i finally decided that capitalization was the way to go, especially if i didn't want to build and sell stuff like city walls while waiting for a new improvement to become available, or if i just want to ignore the city for the remainder of the game |
Oldman
b.02-15-99
|
|
posted June 07, 2000 09:04
|
|
| |
Hi SCG, Good point about the food caravans!!! i suppose that if you've only got the food caravan option, you'd be best off building Capitalisation!!!!!!But a further question about trade... I've found in the occ games that for huge periods of time i'm not able to build a caravan with a tradable comodity?!?! when it would be a greta help to get cash coming in, is there a way to reset the traded comodities, or make one become available?!?!!??! Nice to have you with us SCG!!! so what do you study then? and where to you come from? just being nosey... |
SCG
b.02-15-99
|
|
posted June 07, 2000 09:39
|
|
| |
Can't say I have much of an answer about changing caravan options - i can guess that significant city growth or certain new technologies factor in, but I haven't been able to see any real pattern to it. Often, it seems like as soon as a caravan reaches its destination, the things your city supplies change.Then there is the bug with hides, where even if you are supplying hides somewhere, you can still build more hide caravans. I've not seen that mentioned in the forums anywhere yet, though i'm only back to threads that had their last posts in april 2000. Was it fixed with a patch sometime? As one further insight, i've noticed that caravans register as one of your 3 trade routes only if they are with a city that has at least 1 more trade arrow than any of your 3 current cities, reguardless of other factors. So if I want to trade with a foreign city that has less trade than a city
I'm already trading with, i temporarily decrease the # of arrows in the city i want to eliminate. Easy to do with my own cities - I just make everyone an entertainer. Harder with foreign cities - you have to squat on their trade specials for a turn. I don't do that too often, for obvious reasons Anyway, since you asked, Oldman, I'm a grad student in Computer Science over in the eastern US |
Oldman
b.02-15-99
|
|
posted June 07, 2000 09:56
|
|
| |
I'm kind of new to all this trading business myself!!! i hardly ever used to use caravans for anything but wonders until i played occ and saw the point!!!!! i never knew about the bug with hides, i'll have to have a look!!!!
have fun doing your computer science!! can't wait to get back to uni myself next year!!! lazy days again!!!!!!!!!!! |
DaveV
b.02-15-99
|
|
posted June 07, 2000 10:51
|
|
| |
In the absence of someone who knows what he's talking about (*paging Adam Smith*), I'll post my opinions on trade routes.I think you can "reset" a trade commodity by establishing a trade route from a different city. For example, you, as the Romans, have trade routes with Berlin, Washington, and Delhi. If Berlin already has 3 routes established and you send a caravan from Veii to Berlin, Rome may reclaim its commodity that it sent to Berlin (while still retaining the trade route). I'm not a big trader, but this has worked for me in the past. As for food caravans, they can be worth a lot more than coins if used to help build a wonder or a spaceship part. |
Oldman
b.02-15-99
|
|
posted June 07, 2000 10:57
|
|
| |
Cheers DaveV,
Just one query though? How do you do that with occ??????? i'm not playing any other types of civ game at the moment!??! |
DaveV
b.02-15-99
|
|
posted June 07, 2000 12:04
|
|
| |
I don't play OCC much, so this may be a fluke, but I built 4 (non-food) caravans in OCC 8 before I delivered any. When I delivered the 3rd and 4th caravans (all to the same city), two commodities became available again. Eventually, I got greedy and sent some caravans to a city that was bigger and further away; this messed up the recurring commodities. I think I would have been better to build a chain of ships and send caravans every turn to the original city. |
tonic
b.02-15-99
|
|
posted June 07, 2000 17:18
|
|
| |
While we're talking about caravans, 2 questions:1. While playing OCC3 I had the first 3 caravans - hides, oil and gold - around 600BC but no civs demanded any of the 3. Is this common? 2. Has the AI the annoying tendency to change the demand for your caravan commodity if you land in your own airported city or ends up on a square adjacent to the destination city (only to find your long trek devalued by loss of demand on the next turn)?
|
SCG
b.02-15-99
|
|
posted June 07, 2000 19:17
|
|
| |
I'm a little surprised no one was demanding hides - they are pretty common especially in BC - but you're usually lucky if you can get more than 1 city to demand oil or gold, and in my experience, a lot of those cities are quite small (1-3), making it not really worth it.As for cities changing their commodities enroute, i've seen it a few times, but i tend to trade with capitols (since they usually are unriottable), and tend to supplement roads around those capitol cities to cut down travel time and bolster the trade gains so I don't really know how common it actually is. |
Paul
b.02-15-99
|
|
posted June 08, 2000 00:08
|
|
| |
Hides are usually in demand somewhere in the BC era, but gold is rarely demanded and oil is usually only demanded later in the game. From my own experience, dye is usually the most demanded commodity. |
catullus
b.02-15-99
|
|
posted June 08, 2000 01:43
|
|
| |
Paul: I think a civ must have developed trade before it can start having demands (and obviously supplies). By 600BC the other civs just might not have discovered trade yet. Give thy neighbours the trade tech, and you should see the initial trade bonus grow.
Can this be confirmed by anyone?C. |
Apolyton Civilization Site Forums-archives
