Seems like just about every game, I get up to 1500 AD, find myself with five cities and a treasury of 85 (and sometimes less). Whereupon I consider the likelihood of doing the tech advances necessary to get to AC by 2000, and come up with a figure somewhere in 2100 or so, so I quit and start a new game.

I did win one time because I had a huge whack of cities and stuff, and was just about to quit because there was no hope of getting to AC by 2000. Then I notice that there were only about five cities left unconquered, so I pulled on my G. Khan hat and went out and conquered them all. Of course, it ened up that one of the guys had built a new city in previously explored territory, so I had to go wandering all over the map to find him.

What I'm saying is, I guess I could always just go into conquest mode from the start, but I think the AC strategy is just a little more classy.

No, I'm not likely give the game up entirely, but it sure does seem to be taking me a heck of a long time to master it.

You should NOT have 5 cities by 1500 AD.

Expansion is key to the game. Forget about building improvements... BUILD MORE SETTLERS.
You have thousands of years to improve, at least lay a good base of cities first.
If I don't have 8 cities by 2000BC, I know I'm falling behind. In an MP game, I know I'm doomed

Explore and expand. Then you can start worring about trade routes and war. If somebody blocks your way, go somewhere else. Locked in... build ships and find someplace else to expand. Just keep building cities...

And last, don't concentrate on production shields. Concentrate on trade arrows instead. Do a beeline and research straight to monarchy (or republic) GET OUT OF DESPOTISM as fast as you can.

Jim W - here's a simple algorithm for the early game: Build your first (two) city(s). Build a warrior to maintain order, a horseman to explore, and a settler to build another city. DON'T waste time irrigating, mining, or building improvements in your city. Build roads if needed, but get those early cities down ASAP! If you decide to switch to growth mode later, your cities should all be about the same size, which makes "we love the xxxx" growth spurts easier. If you want to play the "infinite cities" game, just keep cranking out settlers and building cities.

I'm happy when I reach it before 2000BC.

But in fact, I don't have many experiences in MP, and my highest rate in SP were

***ashamed*** 167% ***ashamed***

with DEITY, man, with DEITY
A friend of mine has reached 130% with Warlord, so my record...sucks

I know, I know, I'm bad. I play this game since summer 1996, so this is ridiculous

I'm one that builds my first few cities near specials... And I will wander until I find them. Yes, sometimes I feel like the lost tribe... but I still look for them. Your first few cities will be the key of your empire... I want them to be special!

My first 2 0r 3 cities absolutely,positively have to have specials in their radius' or I keep looking.Recognize the special pattern so you can mine specials from grassland if necessary.

Ming is correct.Science is everything.Learn how trade arrows work.Generating lots of trade arrows gives the science and cash.

Move your workers.Don't accept the game's default placement.It goes for food first.You want arrows

caravans,caravans,caravans-build and DELIVER as many as possible.Don't spend 1000 years looking for a city that demands.Get the trade routes set up ASAP.If it demands...great.

OCC.Play it.You will learn more about the game than any other way.

http://home.planet.nl/~belt0018/occ.htm

I've been trying to keep my mind on expansion. However, I still do a bit of development around each city with each new settler (1 mine, 1 irrigation, that sort of thing.). Once I've got five cities or so, I usually set one settler or two out of the many I've got to building roads to facilitate trade.

Just recently, I've taken to watching the shield production as closely as the food production. (I think it may be something to do with the bright colour of the grain sheaves (back on the farm in my part of the world, we called them "bundles") as opposed to the darker blue of the shield.

Some time ago, I noted the advantage of Monarchy over despotism in terms of taxes and Science, and the advantage of Monarchy over Democracy in terms of the lack of a Senate to prevent me from running those Bad Guys out of my irrigated fields. So I head for Monarchy very quickly, with Bridge Building a close second.

I have not yet been able to really figure out what the trade arrows do, where they come into play, though I can see where they're produced, and manage their increase. As a result, I generally work at food and shields.

I may have downplayed my achievements too severely; I only occasionally find myself with five cities at 1500 AD. I've had worse situations; surrounded by enemies on the continent I start out in, with another enemy inhabiting the nearest land-mass to my own, making expansion very difficult, and necessitating a large concentration on defence.

The game I started just after sending off last night's whine is going a lot better, though I'm still using somewhat of a mix of the Explore-and-found cities and the Explore-found- and-develop cities mode.

As for building caravans without having roads, yes, it can be done, but having roads at least between the major cities is a massive advantage.

And in last night's game, while I was still irrigating a patch where I was about to found my first city, one of my exploring archers tipped over a hut and found an advanced tribe, which declared itself the capital. (Built the palace.) I haven't changed that because that city is in pretty much as good a position for a Science City as my first choice.

Thanks for all the suggestions, and I hope this hasn't been gone on for too long.

quote: I still do a bit of development around each city with each new settler (1 mine, 1 irrigation, that sort of thing.)

Jim, this is your problem, right here. you have to remember that mining and irrigation take 5-10 turns a piece; at Warlord, that's 100-200 years. In the time it takes you to do either, you could take that settler, move clear of his home city, and build a new one.

Try this: do nothing with settlers except build cities--no exceptions--until you have at least ten cities. Make certain the first thing you build in each city is your cheapest defender, followed by a settler, followed by yet another settler.

Then sit back and examine the results.

Play a game of OCC - take one of the good starting maps that have been banded about recently - read Paul's guide - set the difficulty at least one notch higher than you normally play - let the good times flow!

I guarantee that (1) you will win - this is a tremendous boost to the ego and (2) you will see a thousand ways in which you could have done better!

I hasten to add that playing a sleaze will also guarantee a win, but it takes a lot longer and is harder work.
The sort of multicity perfectionism that you describe can most certainly work, but it takes more micromanagement than I can hack.

Good civin'

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Scouse Git[1]

1) I start HG after finishing a caravan. Then I use that caravan and three others (built in other cities) to complete HG in one turn. I would rather produce several extra settlers than start HG in the very early game. I never seem to have any problem building HG vs. the AI, since they don't place a high value on that wonder. It could be a different story against humans, though...

2) No. Monarchy first, Trade second. Usually by the time I need Pottery, I've acquired it from a hut or tribute. The only time I would choose to research it is if I couldn't research any techs leading to Monarchy or Trade (and then I'd still hope to pick it up for free before I finished researching it).

For me the best part of Civ2, is the start on a new random map, with a fresh, black slate: those first few absorbing hours of buildup in a brand-new environment, wondering what the game has in store for me...I know that sooner, or later, I'm going to get clobbered again,(in my Hall of Fame I'm rated "I the Ignominious"), but, I continue to travel, hopefully, and when I eventually stumble into involuntary confrontation with, and eventual conquest by, the 3 strongest AI civs, am I downhearted? -no!
'Cos, as the Barred has it "Now is the Winter
of our discontent-can Springing to a new start be far behind"

Now, I will grant you that against the AI, just about any solid strategy will work. And your way may actually be better, since the AI cheats to develop sciences at the rate you are. But in an MP game, science and money are everything. The first person to be able to build pikeman, knights, elephants, catapults, or crusaders has a definite edge.

For one thing, I learned we have a good game here, since there are several ways to win, and several pemutations and combinations of ways to win.

Do you just build cities like crazy, or just a few, and make them big? Do you concentrate on resource production, or trade? Build roads early, or not at all?

As I said, you don't just find the way through the maze, then every game after that, follow the same trqack until it gets boring.

After all, if you randomize the map from game to game, the terrain changes, resources change, special spots change.

The game I'm presently working on has tsom major land-masses, and several large islands. This means that trading to the islands is more profitable than land-trade, though I still have a lot of land routes going, partly to build the Wonders and partly to get caravans to the port nearest the trade destination.

I'm up in the 1500s, got a lot of trade going, got Leonardo's, Engineers, musketeers, cannon, and caravels, and am working at conscription.

The Bad Guys keep on declaring war on me because I won't give them the secret of Gunpowder, but with legions against Cannon, well, I don't really worry.

By this weekend, I'll see if I can get ot AC.

Thanks for all the tips and advice, and I'll take any more that anybody can send.

I wopn't promise to use it all, but I will consider it all as I develop a game-style of my own.

Since then, it's been going up and down. One game I'll do not too terribly badly, then for three games I can't get anywhere, then I start doing better again.

One of those things...

Well, it should! That's what the levels are for. Each forces you to learn new skills. Since I didn't know about these Civ boards at the time, I used to stop my games and examine what the AI civs were doing (the value of irrigation was a revelation).

The suggestions posted here are great, even when contradictary. Each thing you emphasize has a trade-off of something lost.

But some of the suggestions are more complex and subtle than you need at this point, so here are some basics that helped me.

Build as many cities as you can afford to, while keeping a defense. Keep your production of shields, food, and trade balanced. Always keep *some* population growth in every city (irrigated plains are good for that).

Pay attention to the special resources, of course, but keep in mind that they are not all equal - at the start, you want the balanced ones (whales, pheasants, silk provide some of everything).

Think in terms of investments. Those early decisions are going to stay with you forever. Something that pays off in the short term may be important if you are under actual attack, but that is not usually the case early. That archer may make you feel safer, but another city or a marketplace will be move valuable.

Defense is more efficient than attack. That fortified phalanx on a hill can absorb a lot of chariot attacks - especially uncoordinated AI ones.

Monarchy is great, early. Aim your science research towards it. Study the tech tree, there is a "most-efficient" path to monarchy.

Grow your cities in stages. Build 2 to start, then build 2 more from those. Build defense, then double your cities with new settlers. Every 5 cities or so, dedicate one to building a Wonder. It's hard, but it pays off. Rotate the Wonder-building cities.

Wonders: Every one has a value, and there are endless arguements about which ones to build. Try the basic ones first (Pyramids and Great Wall). The effects are definate and immediately obvious. Then experiment with using the other early ones. You may like them or not, but you should see what they can do.

Deliberately try different strategies. Start one game deciding to conquer the world, then one where you just build. It worth finding out what you enjoy and/or are good at.

Read the manual. After a few games, read it again. You will understand some things that weren't clear the first few times. There are a lot of non-obvious bits of information in there.

Last, it is more informative to lose at a challenging level than to win at an easy one. Save often, and examine the game afterwards. Don't feel bad about losing to the computer - it cheats.

I've been playing this game since December, and my highest ranking is a 129% on King Level.

I'd like to echo Mad Monk, et. al., in saying that building lots of cities is indispensible in winning this game. Think of them as the bones of a skeleton, with everything else as improvements on the body. It may be slow and awkward at first, but look out once you get going.

It seems that I take even more risks at the start than even more of the others. I build a city, then build warriors to explore, then settlers, then another city, and the pattern repeats itself until I have about 5 or 6 cities. After that, I have a "core" where I build better defenses and improvements, but keep building outwards with more settlers. I know warriors in themselves are pretty lame, but the are cheap and let you explore a lot.

As far as science in the game's embryonic stages, I scorn all advances in favor of literacy in order to build the Great Library, especially useful if you're playing with seven civs in total. Then, haul a## towards philosophy, monarchy, feudalism, and invention, whereby you can get Leonardo's workshop, which really puts you at an advantage in unit superiority. Your riflemen will soon combat warriors! Sun Tzu's is good, too. Meanwhile, settlers link your cities with roads and you can begin your first war. Monotheism and crusaders are good for destroying your first opponents. Soon you can go "Fundy" and bash in everyone. Once you get Darwin's Voyage, you're really cookin'!

I need to remind myself of this periodically, but when you strike an opponent, strike from several different directions with overwhelming force. The AI seems to figure out relatively mediocre attacks from one direction. Use those galleons. Watch out if your opponent has a navy equal to yours or he'll turn your soliders on transports into Leo and Kate from the Titanic! Send escort vessels on the same squares as the carrying ships. Use spies and diplomats to buy off opponents' cities.

I like to play on a large, random world. You can build lots of cities at the start this way. In fact, in my best game, I played on a large world and the game place me on a huge continent where I did not run out of room for expansion, even into the 1880s. Even though the other civilizations got some science I didn't, my large land mass, compared to their smaller ones, gave me the wherewithal to toast them.

Hope this helps.