The basic empire was four cities on the Zulu continent. Three more were situated on the island to the north, and a further three on the islands to the south-east. I held one city for a time on the Indian continent, until the French nuked me out. (Well it was BANGalore!) There was me thinking no Manhattan Project – no nukes - ahhhhhhh! In some ways the game was easier without the wonders, but I did miss Magellan’s, as caravan delivery seemed very slow!

The game was great fun. It was the first scenario I’ve tackled. Never played a green civ before – each time I looked at the map, I thought I’d been wiped out. Next time I will press all the buttons at 4000BC to make sure that mobile warfare doesn’t come with polytheism!
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SG (2)

Also, I have put the saves I have recievd so far on my site. You can find them at http://home.planet.nl/~belt0018/chal0300.htm

Diety Level
"vik the Foolish"
Civilization score: 27
Civilization rating: 3%

This was extremely hard to try to do the OCC thing, but I tried it anyways.

I realized pretty quickly that all the grassland would make finding the 4-square special hard to find. But I guessed right the first time. Unfortunately, I had to put my single city in a land-locked square, but I hi-jacked a Trireme later.

I didn't know until after I started that there were no wonders. That REALLY hurts OCC-style of play.

I also didn't know we already had contact with everyone else. That also really hurst OCC-style.

I did do something some might consider cheating. After launching my SS in 1931, I played out the game only to witness the egyptians practically rush-buy a 39-8-8-1-1-1 SS and launch it. It was due to arrive in 1947 as my SS was, but when 1947 came around, it only acknowledged the Egyptians.

So I reloaded my 1931 game, launched the SS, and built a bunch of diplos to sabotage Egyptian production. It worked.

If we continue to do this sort of competition, I would suggest allowing the wonders, and playing a small map. That way, you will get a broader group of playing styles. As it is now, you're not getting the best effort. An OCCer is just as hampered by no wonders as the other extreme -- the ICSer. ICSers need Hanging Gardens as bad as us OCCers need Colossus.

Although I have to disagree: this challenge was cool because there weren't any wonders. If you want a OCC challenge, why not try save-the-whales, or one of the millions of other ones.

I have a nearly complete huge map challenge for you war-mongers - if I can get it done in the next couple of hours I will publish it here...

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Scouse Git[1]

KhanMan -- I re-read DaveV's post that began this thread. If DaveV's goal was to compare styles, letting players play any strategy they like, then it is my opinion that you really don't get an accurate comparison of the effectiveness of the OCC/ICS styles if you prohibit the wonders. That was the point of my earlier whining.

A "No Wonders" game is refreshing, but again, if the goal of this "competition" is to compare styles, the "No Wonders" game would lead to a flawed comparison.

I killed each civ in turn, and ruled the world at 1320 AD. So do I win?

If I remember rightly I killed Indians, French, Persians, Egyptians then English, but I could have got the order mixed up.

This was a lot of fun to play, and I would have shaved quite a lot of turns off if I had got Navigation earlier, by treriemes took such a long time to get to the Persians, going all the way round the French.

Is this the best date so far? Anyway, I am just about to send the .savs to Paul now.

Graag

I only ever used knights in this game. I build no other offensive units and no diplomats.
I built 4 cities on the rock and rush built barracks in each, then rushed a load of vet. knights and treriems and kicked the Indians.
I then simply repeated this startegy.
After I had chivalry I ignored science completely, maxing tax and lux to keep cities happy and have money to buy units and temples.

Graag

But I would also like to see some more no-wonders challenges. IMHO, that has the potential to be the next OCC...

I think most of us missed the contacts...I didn't realise we had contact until late in the game too...in fact, when I played again with the same strategy, at emperor instead of prince, and used the contacts, it mde up for the difference in diffulty...

With all that said, I'm impressed that it was even possible to do OCC without Collosus and Copernicus'...let alone on no-wonders!

Anyone else have this problem?

Graag

Is it the same as basic war-mongering?

I downloaded Graag's game just to see how he was able to conquer so early. I think I hit upon a difference: We both started at the Indians at roughly the same time, however, it appears the Indians were more numerous and larger in my MGE game (as oppose to his 2.42). My problem was that I didn't throw enough units at them at one time.

But I'm sure playing MGE and not knowing that you start with contact has a huge effect on your game, when did you win Steve? Next time use 2.42, I'm certain it shaved a thousand years or so off my conquest time.

Graag

ICS is the near total opposite of OCC. Instead of "One City" you have "Infinite Cities" hence "ICS." The "S" in ICS stands for either "strategy" or "sleaze" depending on who you ask.

ICS is not as refined as OCC as far as a tech path goes. There is even a lot of opinion as to which wonders to build. I was hoping to get this refined and defined when I started the thread "Melancholy and ICS," now in the archives.

The general gist of ICS is this: you build one city as your Super Science City -- generally your capital. This is the only city that you really manage. You take the other settler and build another city. That city builds a warrior (or some other defense) and another settler, which forms another city. Basically, all your cities build another settler to go and form another city. All these other cities should not grow beyond size one or two. By keeping the city size down, you are able to put these cities one square away from each other. All these city squares generate a trade arrow or two, which, along with your "SCC," generate a lot of science.

But you drop your science production at a certain point.

One of the main themes is the race to discover democracy, allowing you to build Statue of Liberty and then switch to Commie or Fundy g'ments -- these are the best ICS g'ments because you can more easily control happiness (you will have 40-60-80-etc cities by the time you get democracy).

Other wonders that benefit ICS play:

HG -- helps happiness pre-SOL, probably a "must have"
GW -- city walls for all your 1-banger cities
JSB -- helps happiness
MC -- called a "must have" happiness wonder
SOL -- "must have" allowing g'ment change
SZWA -- quick vets
LW -- upgrades your units
GL -- to keep up with early tech

Now, imagine all these 40-80-120 cities of yours each building a cheap horseman or two. With SZWA and LW and a switch to fundy g'ment, you will have one heck of an army once you learn about Cavalry.

Additionally, all these cities could build a caravan or two. Along with helping your rate of science advance, you can easily rush-build any wonder you please.

The quick science rate you gain by all the caravans pretty much eliminates the need for Cop's Ob or I.N.C in your SCC.

The strength of ICS is that each city works n+1 squares, where n is the city's population. So 10 size 1 cities can work 20 squares, while 2 size 5 cities can only work 12 squares. Additionally, you need to build improvements to support large cities, while small ones can be kept happy with wonders or Elvis.

Just launched my 15-3-3-1-1-1 ship in 1895 AD, estimated arrival is 1910. Haven't finished yet so 1910 is not official.

Doesn't really matter because I, erhm..., reloaded once , so it's not a clean win anyway. I was very sleepy (Zzzzzzzz...) last night, didn't pay attention to the game and all of a sudden I was in anarchy... Yep, government collapse...

It's past 3 AM here, just some short info.

Quickly realised I was on an island, but didn't realise nearly as quick I "had" Marco Polo's from the start (not until probably well past 1 AD). Missed one of the whales. Had two alliances (Egyptians and Indians), but couldn't squeeze much gold out of them.

Saved regularly in the beginning, but quickly forgot about the "twenty turns rule". Continued to save throughout the game, but at random intervals.

As I said above, it's not over yet and I reloaded once...

"Let him who is without sin throw the first stone..."

CR - maybe this is common knowledge, but the "contact from start" aspect of this game appears to be due to the Romans having built the UN before their untimely demise. Apparently the UN gives *all* civs (not just the builder) contact with all other civs.

Personally, my "SCC" has a few tech improvements like a library and/or university.

I'm also toying with the idea of taking one or two 'sleaze' cities, and after kicking out a couple of settlers, get them working on a wonder. If they start working on a wonder in 2000 bc, then they should be ripe and ready to complete SoL or Leo's as soon as i discover invention/democracy.

Trade is my second priority tech, after Monarchy, and I generally build my wonders in a single turn using 4-8 caravans. This works fine for me against the AI, since their high-priority wonders are not mine (Pyramids, Colossus). It's not so reliable in multi-player.