The idea here is to hover bomber planes on the squares around a particular enemy city that has 2 or more food production. Do this to enough squares and presto, the city is faced with a very severe food shortage and easily falls into a downward population spiral once its food box empties.

This strategy can also be used to take control of resource squares that are within the city radius of both one of your cities and an enemy city.

I'd add to your comment only that it is a great tactic against an cease-fire'd AI. You know your going to war when they break the truce so I call it peace time agression--gives meaning to the Evil Romans.

Steve,
I'm not sure if you know about the fortified bomber? Bombers don't have to go back. If they can find land, they can fortify. I guess it is based on refeuling in the air. So they can just sit on your enemies resource squares if you don't fear fighters. Out of this reality comes the concept (cheat) of stacking--though I like the interdiction concept of bombers and find legitimacy in the idea.

Me too, a friend told me about this trick after a month or too of warlord Civ. It never occurred to me to try this trick on my own. I assume you know how to fortify a ground unit. Do the same thing on land with a bomber. It won't crash. It will sit there until it is shot down or unfortified and moved either back to a base/city/carrier or to another piece of land and refortified. You can explore indefinately this way. But don't attack another unit until you return home for more bombs! You will crash if you don't resupply with presumably more bombs. So you can move without a second attack with no penalty.

You can also try fortifying at sea. You just get a message that you can't do this. Land better be nearby! River's are not problem. Lakes are.

Experiment!

There's a distinction between the words 'fortressed' and 'fortified'. You actually don't need to build a 'fortress' or an airbase for a bomber! You can just use the 'f' command and 'fortify' over UNIMPROVED land. But for stacking purposes, it is a great defensive set-up to have a bomber 'fortified' with a 'fortress' and some strong defensive units. The combination of bombers on a square with other units is called stacking with or without the 'fortress'. The concept of stacking is based on the restriction that only a fighter (stealth or reg) can attack a bomber. In the event that a fighter is attacking the stack, the strongest defender defends (this I assume true from experience. though partisans go for engineers as an exception!) If you have a 'fortress', you can only lose one unit per attack. Without a 'fortress' your at risk of losing an entire stack, bomber and all.

But I'm getting too wordy, experiment. I too, love howitzers and spies--not much for tanks.
Oh, can't help myself, build a mountain 'fortress', and put a tank or strong defensive unit in the 'fortress' and 'fortify' and you have a powerful unit. Put a bomber in the stack and 'fortify' and Vet stealth won't budge the combo and howitzers will be useless. Just imagine how many stealth vet fighters will bite the dust with a vet mech fortified in the mountain 'fortress'. It's a cheat in some ways. But everyone does it I'd venture.

Howitzer only is a good concept. Still think a couple fortress buildin' engineers should accompany the howitzer brigade along a railroad with spy Can destroy a civ fast! One turn!

Thanks for the tip about Bombers, didn't know that. Your posts on this thread and others are very good. Glad to see experienced newcomers to this forum. You'll make Warlord in no time

I like the little titles, settler/cheiftain/warlord..., but I want to be choo choo charlie--an engineer. During a game, I'm most excited when explosives is developed or available for research--even more than espionage and robotics and especially so with Leo's thing.

With a settler or chieftain title, I can be excused for my ignorance here and in the games. I think multiplayer will be a big come uppance too :-)

If I didn't have such a nice view of SF facing east, I wouldn't be typing so much at the computer--not true, but it leads to your question-- As far as my orgin is concerned, a simple riddle: East of Buffalo, West of The City, South of Syracuse and North of Elmira is a smallish town with three seasons and three hills and a long lake--oh, and it's 'gorgeous!'

How bout choo?

Aurelius--Ignores ZOC.

From my office, I'm looking directly at a 14000 footer (Pikes Peak). Know the view across the bay at your end, very nice. As far as NY, how about Ithaca or Watkins Glen. I'm originally from Syracuse (Go Orange) and my ancestors have been in Central NY for 200 years.

I got to say, giving both answers says alot!

Syracuse ehh, aren't its inhabitants warlike folk? Sounds to me that you have found a home with even more downy snow to shovel. Are you a Bronco fan now? Or Rockie fan? I've adopted the sport teams of SF.

Happy Millenium. SF had a great fireworks show near the bay bridge. Like any good civboy, I'm still awake at past 1:00 in the morn' postin' on Apolyton.

And like Genghis says, time for a new game.

Genghis, As for Montana! Too many Y2K survivalists Are you tundra folks compliant as hearty. I know this guy in that university town in Montana. He loved to go walking in the remote parks up there. He said you could walk a whole day and not see a human. Do you ever ride the crest of a glacier, Genghis?

Use to own a parka and down mittens. In SF, I don't need but a good sweat shirt and long pants year round. Oh, and only tourists where shorts here

Aurelius.

I use to play this war game, Blitzkrieg, and if memory serves me, there was a bomber concept called interdiction. Add to interdiction, refueling through the air, and you have a real justification for fortified bombers.

Having said this, I'm a real novice in military affairs and must trust the realities of the game...and think like hell to figure out why bombers fortify!

If there is a patch, I guess I should download it. Doesn't anyone else use this bomber fortified concept?

Chieftain Aurelius.

I forgot one thing. Sorry Genghis, I actually didn't mean to confuse Minnesota and Montana. I hope the natives will forgive my trespasses. Being from NY and California, I sometimes neglect the in between. Don't take offense, but ignorance is bliss.

Anyway, I suppose there could be some sort of justification in terms of refeuling bombers.
It still seems to me to be aa teensy bit on the wrong side; after all nobvody has to build any kind of capability for refeuling bombers. But then, nobody has to build any specific factory to put out the railway ties, either.

I dunno. Unless the AI learns it, and uses it on me, I probably won't use it.

Going back to bombers, they cost a huge amount of shields and they cause those unhappy faces in or out of a city. So I assume that the cost of making units to refeul is inherent in the massive shield requirement. Bombers are not nearly as dominating as howizters so I don't think it is a terrible cheat....

Your last point about AI ethics is good...until I ask you this question, do you ever sneak units past an enemy ZOC via a spy/freight/etc and then attack a city deep in the heart of the AI or just behind the front? AI doesn't use this ZOC cheat either

Going back to Blitzkreig, I use to get so frustrated when my supply lines were cut! This phenomenon is not 'really' present in civ.

Do you know if these wargames are now available in computer form? Hated all those little tiles and the tedium of movement factor.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aurelius on 12-30-1999 11:56 PM
Yeah Poppa,

Me too, a friend told me about this trick after a month or too of warlord Civ. It never occurred to me to try this trick on my own. I assume you know how to fortify a ground unit. Do the same thing on land with a bomber. It won't crash. It will sit there until it is shot down or unfortified and moved either back to a base/city/carrier or to another piece of land and refortified. You can explore indefinately this way. But don't attack another unit until you return home for more bombs! You will crash if you don't resupply with presumably more bombs. So you can move without a second attack with no penalty.

You can also try fortifying at sea. You just get a message that you can't do this. Land better be nearby! River's are not problem. Lakes are.

Experiment!

---

what? just how do you fortify a unit? I use the F key or the menu. Both of which tell me a bomber can't no matter where it is. Perhaps you could post a shot or saved game????

'Oh, can't help myself, build a mountain 'fortress', and put a tank or strong
defensive unit in the 'fortress' and 'fortify' and you have a powerful unit. Put a
bomber in the stack and 'fortify' and Vet stealth won't budge the combo and
howitzers will be useless. Just imagine how many stealth vet fighters will bite the
dust with a vet mech fortified in the mountain 'fortress'. It's a cheat in some
ways. But everyone does it I'd venture. '

I have really done it. But as Sten Sture mentioned in an earlier post, there may be a patch for the phenomenon. Oh, if you tell me exactly how to make those pretty pics, I'll try my hand at uploading an example (I'll look at your notes to SmartFart or was it Caesar the Great? Whatever.)

Maybe I've been having too much success due to a know cheat. In OCC, this fortified bomber trick has been essential in my late year successes. I would need twice the bombers to hold off all those space ship wrecking units that would take my one city.

I don't use 'f' keyboard command, but rarely. The menu's fortified command is my method. Well, just used the 'f' command to fortify a bomber in my 'evergreen game' (nothing to brag about though.)

I'll use a cheat unless told not to. And being new to the scene at apolyton, I do need some admonishment on occasion.

Daggonit! I'm going to set my mind to that neat display graphic concept right away. Can I ask a really stupid question, how do I tell what version of civ II I have? The credits only give the names of various contributors. My civ files are defaulted under a file called mps. The manual, which I have NEVER read is buried in the garage with some random box among many(very disorganized.)

If my memory serves me right the fortifying bomber trick worked in v2.08 (the standard CD version available in the UK - I just checked your profile, Aurelius, I have no idea what the standard issue is in the states) but is no longer available after applying the v2.42 patch - which you can get from the Microprose site at ftp://ftp.microprose.com/pub/mps-online/new-versions/civ242.zip

Hope this helps ...
____________
Scouse Git[1]

This is the second time I can recall this grandmother sucks eggs thing. I only understand it due to a great word site:
http://clever.net/quinion/words/index.htm

Teach not thy parent's mother to extract
The embryo juices of the bird by suction.
The good old lady can that feat enact,
Quite irrespective of your kind instruction.

But your info is very appreciated.
..............
And thanks Dave,

Guess I have Civ II 1.07.
Of course, one answer leads to another question: Do I have to buy a new Civ game to play Multiplayer?
.................
And MWHC,
I've nearly got that nifty graphic thing figured out. Downloaded Ws-ftp LE as you mentioned in another post. Captured the screen on my civ II version and now I need to convert the damn thing and resize it. I like those graphic you post--oh...ah...especially the hut pattern one

Well, since nobody with a modern version can fortify bombers, I'll stop...I promise

Blitzkreig was a great game. When I started playing Civilization, I was reminded of the old days of wargaming. I'll have to download the game from the site you mention.

Back in those youthful times, I lived in a house full of avid gamers--there was War in the Pacific(?) ,Diplomacy--Europe, Diplomacy altered for 14 players on a world map--friend made this huge sheet of a world map, Battle of the Bulge, Panzer Blitz, D&D or Advance D&D--a favorite and Bliztkrieg was my favorite wargame. Chess/Poker/go! That was a fun house! A bit nerdy perhaps !

Aurelius--Mr interdiction.

(BTW--is there still a defcom (sp?) convention?)

As for the original post, I have the MPG version so I guess I'm SOL. (Just tried it in an old saved game and it didn't work).

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Frodo lives!