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Topic: How many cities? |  |
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kcbob
Apolyton CS Co-Administrator
Macedonia, Greece
b.02-15-99
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posted December 15, 1999 12:22
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I've seen references in these forums to playing games and only building 10 to 20 cities in an empire. Then what? Do you go for science? War? It seems to me that the nature of man is to explore and set up new cities/colonies wherever you can. I just can't get a feel for playing a game with a low number of cities. What is the underlying strategy behind that plan? Thanks. |
Paul
Apolyton CS Co-Administrator
Macedonia, Greece
b.02-15-99
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posted December 15, 1999 12:39
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I find that managing lots of cities takes too much time, so I never build more than 20 cities. After that I concentrate on getting to AC.
[This message has been edited by Paul (edited December 15, 1999).] |
valmont
Apolyton CS Co-Administrator
Macedonia, Greece
b.02-15-99
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posted December 15, 1999 13:14
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The underlying strategy is to win thru science by landing on AC. You can do this with only one city but it's not as much fun because you have to micromanage like hell.The key is to maximize your resources. Find good sites with specials for your cities. I build the super-science city (Colossus, Copernicus, Newton & Shakespeare) in my capitol. I build as many trade caravans as I can manage. I try to stay out of war. I like to be allied with at least half the other civs. Not always possible, but I try anyway. I like to find the goodie huts, so I do explore. You have to if you want to establish valuable trade routes. In most things my game usually resembles the one-city game, but since I have more cities I can waste time and money if I feel like it.
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Smash
Apolyton CS Co-Administrator
Macedonia, Greece
b.02-15-99
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posted December 15, 1999 17:18
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Each game is a little different.I find terrain to be the single most important factor in deciding what is the best way to go.Good terrain with trade specials=the scientist.Bad terrain or sheild specials usually=the warmonger.Or a combo of the 2.As noted,micro managing big civs is a tad on the tediuos side for me so my "regular game" civs are not that large.10 -20 cities is max. I did try an ICS game recently and micro managing became less important as my cities grew.There were only so many squares to work.This might be the way to go for large civ loving,micro managing hating players |
Campo
Apolyton CS Co-Administrator
Macedonia, Greece
b.02-15-99
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posted December 16, 1999 09:07
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quote:
Originally posted by valmont on 12-15-1999 01:14 PMI like to be allied with at least half the other civs. Not always possible, but I try anyway.
Wow, with the MGE game I've never been able to ally with more than one other civ, despite repeated attempts. Many games I can't get anyone to ally with me. |
johnmcd
Apolyton CS Co-Administrator
Macedonia, Greece
b.02-15-99
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posted December 16, 1999 10:56
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Well Campo, it sounds like your doing well if you can only ally with one Civ. The AI won't ally with you if it thinks you are doing too well anyway. Thats what makes OCC possible, because you are always well down the power chart the AI doesn't see you as a threat and is quite happy to cuddle up to you. The same goes for ten or fifteen city civs on a standard or large map. I like to have about eighty perfectionist micromanaged cities though so I often never get an alliance in the course of a game  ... |
jpk
Apolyton CS Co-Administrator
Macedonia, Greece
b.02-15-99
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posted December 16, 1999 13:19
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Science is a key for either conquering the world or AC. If you build a decent science city, you will find that provides about half the science you get from cities, regardless of how many cities you have. The real key to science is the repeated delivery of caravans, especially to cities that are on continents other than the one on which the caravan was constructed. I like to have enough cites so that I always have a number of cities that can build caravans for trade.My guess is that most people stick to playing on a certain size map. Check to see the maximum number of cities that any AI civilization has. On 10,000 square maps it is about 30. On smaller maps it will be less. Once you build that many cities you have more enough to hold your own in any war that might occur. At that point you might want to start doing whatever it is you want to do. If you want to conquer the world, start conquering. If you want to go to AC, build up your cash reserves so that you can rapidly buy the parts of your space ship. You can generally count on some AI civilization stealing space flight. If a civilization has 20 or more cities and it gets space flight it is a real threat to getting to AI before you. About the time you get cavalry consider cutting any large civilization down to size by capturing a few of its large cities, especially the capitol. Try to stay at war with these civilizations so they have to expend their effort on new units rather that space ship parts. ------------------
If you can not think of a good reason to build something other than a caravan, build a caravan!
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Campo
Apolyton CS Co-Administrator
Macedonia, Greece
b.02-15-99
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posted December 16, 1999 14:59
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quote:
Originally posted by johnmcd on 12-16-1999 10:56 AM
Well Campo, it sounds like your doing well if you can only ally with one Civ.
Okay, here's my shameful admission: I'm playing at King level. There, it's out in the open. I feel so inferior to all you "Deity/Raging Hordes" guys, but I don't think I'm ready yet. I can win at King consistently, but it's usually by conquest in the mid to late 1900's. Sometimes, if my terrain isn't good, not until the early 2000's.
Is there a "Lame Civ II Players" club? I guess my confession qualifies me for it. |
jpk
Apolyton CS Co-Administrator
Macedonia, Greece
b.02-15-99
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posted December 16, 1999 16:13
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Campo, play at what ever level you want. If you wish to eventually play at the Deity level, consider starting with your next game. When I first started playing Deity level games I got smashed by the AI, repeatedly. I was a slow learner and did not know about Apolyton.If you choose to play at the Deity level, remember to manage unhappiness first through martial law (up to three units in the city) and then by building happiness Wonders. The Hanging Gardens, Michelangelo, and Bach are all very nice. Get to Monarchy as fast as you can. One thing you might try is play a game until 1 AD and then come back to Apolyton and tell us what problems you may have. If you don't have any problems, feel free to brag.  Depending upon the situation, you may want to quit that game and start another. One nice thing about the AI civilizations is they do not mind if you delete the games from your hard drive when they are ahead. What ever you choose to do, have fun! ------------------
If you can not think of a good reason to build something other than a caravan, build a caravan!
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Sten Sture
Apolyton CS Co-Administrator
Macedonia, Greece
b.02-15-99
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posted December 16, 1999 16:13
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Campo - no worries, keep working at it and you will see improvement. (One more piece of advice...play on a small map. The games go faster and you will improve quicker.) |
valmont
Apolyton CS Co-Administrator
Macedonia, Greece
b.02-15-99
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posted December 16, 1999 16:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Campo on 12-16-1999 09:07 AM
Wow, with the MGE game I've never been able to ally with more than one other civ, despite repeated attempts. Many games I can't get anyone to ally with me.
I only use MGE for playing scenarios. Otherwise I've gone back to good old Civ2. The AI in MGE is much more aggressive and even when I manage to get an alliance it never lasts long. But peace is necessary if you want to be successful trading - that's why I switched back. |
poppawoppa
Apolyton CS Co-Administrator
Macedonia, Greece
b.02-15-99
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posted December 16, 1999 21:50
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quote:
Originally posted by jpk on 12-16-1999 01:19 PM
Science is a key for either conquering the world or AC. If you build a decent science city, you will find that provides about half the science you get from cities, regardless of how many cities you have. The real key to science is the repeated delivery of caravans, especially to cities that are on continents other than the one on which the caravan was constructed. I like to have enough cites so that I always have a number of cities that can build caravans for trade.My guess is that most people stick to playing on a certain size map. Check to see the maximum number of cities that any AI civilization has. On 10,000 square maps it is about 30. On smaller maps it will be less. Once you build that many cities you have more enough to hold your own in any war that might occur. At that point you might want to start doing whatever it is you want to do. If you want to conquer the world, start conquering. If you want to go to AC, build up your cash reserves so that you can rapidly buy the parts of your space ship. You can generally count on some AI civilization stealing space flight. If a civilization has 20 or more cities and it gets space flight it is a real threat to getting to AI before you. About the time you get cavalry consider cutting any large civilization down to size by capturing a few of its large cities, especially the capitol. Try to stay at war with these civilizations so they have to expend their effort on new units rather that space ship parts.
It sounds like you send caravan after caravan from your ONE city to lots of cities in the AI territory. So, I have a couple questions. How do you manage to send commodities more than 3 times? Once your 3 commodities are built and sent, and delivered, the only one I have been offered is the food caravan. Until way lots of turns go by, then occassionally, one of the commodities does change from Hides to Copper or something. Then I can send another caravan with a new trade good.
The second question really is like the first, if your city allows just 3 caravan trade goods, then you must rely on the science bonus for further beakers rather than the on-
going trade icons from the established routes turn after turn. Also, in the early years, some of the trade routes pay 19 gold pieces and result in trade icons of +0 or +1 only. That seems a small return for a 50 shield caravan. |
Smash
Apolyton CS Co-Administrator
Macedonia, Greece
b.02-15-99
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posted December 16, 1999 22:16
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Small city caravans are resupported from the science city and other high trade cities. |
poppawoppa
Apolyton CS Co-Administrator
Macedonia, Greece
b.02-15-99
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posted December 16, 1999 22:19
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Ah, So, Verrrry Interrrrrresting.... |
Campo
Apolyton CS Co-Administrator
Macedonia, Greece
b.02-15-99
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posted December 17, 1999 09:18
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jpk:
One thing you might try is play a game until 1 AD and then come back to Apolyton and tell us what problems you may have.
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I like that idea. If I get my Christmas shopping done I'll try an Emperor or Diety game this weekend and report back on Monday. Otherwise I'll have to wait until after Christmas.---------------------------------------------
Sten Sture:
Campo - no worries, keep working at it and you will see improvement. (One more piece of advice...play on a small map. The games go faster and you will improve quicker.)
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Yes, I have seen improvement. A couple months ago I couldn't win at King level. I do play on a small map because of time limits. Part of my problem is that I'm only playing one or at most two games a month because of other obligations. ---------------------------------------------
valmont:
I only use MGE for playing scenarios. Otherwise I've gone back to good old Civ2.
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I would love to try regular Civ2. All I have is MGE. I got it as a gift earlier this year, and it was my first exposure to Civ. Is the regular Civ2 still available? What does it cost? Should I really consider trying to jump from King to Diety? I was thinking about a few more games at King, then trying Emperor. Won't I get clobbered at Diety? |
valmont
Apolyton CS Co-Administrator
Macedonia, Greece
b.02-15-99
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posted December 17, 1999 12:32
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If you think you're ready, try a deity game. If you get clobbered, drop down to emperor. The imporant thing is to have fun. |
kcbob
Apolyton CS Co-Administrator
Macedonia, Greece
b.02-15-99
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posted December 17, 1999 13:10
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I tried a game of OCC last night. Was getting clobbered by the evil Sioux. Maybe the problem was that I was playing on a small world. I can see I'm very partial to a large world. I think I can say at this point that I'm more of an ICS player although that may change. I'll give OCC a couple of more chances.I will say this. After hanging out in this forum for about a week now, I think I've got most of the acronyms down. One I can't quite figure out yet is WLKTD. Can someone help me out? Unless I totally butchered the letters and you all can't figure it out either. Anyway, back to number of cities. As I said, I'll give OCC another try. And I have printed off Paul's OCC guide. Maybe I should pay attention to it, huh? And Campo, I'm with you. I can consistently beat king and am just now stepping up to emperor. Jump to deity? No thanks. My ego was bruised enough at prince when I first started that I'll taper in to deity. But I WILL get there. Won't I? Wait a minute. I think I just figured out WLKTD. "With Loving Kindness Till Death". Okay, maybe not. I just wanted to try the edit feature for a post. (I love this site. Couldn't have found it at a better time of year... Christmas)
[This message has been edited by kcbob (edited December 17, 1999).] |
Bohlen
Apolyton CS Co-Administrator
Macedonia, Greece
b.02-15-99
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posted December 17, 1999 13:24
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WLTKD = We Love The King Day |
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