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Topic:   Single Player Vs. Multiplayer Tactics Format for Better Printing
Spod
Apolyton CS Co-Administrator
Macedonia, Greece
b.02-15-99
posted December 01, 1999 07:25   Click Here to See the Profile for SpodClick Here to Email Spod  send a private message to MarkG Visit Spod's Homepage!
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Spod here.

What are the major differences in tactics between single player and multiplayer? For example, when I play alone, my cities are relatively lightly defended, usually two defensive units fortified plus one offensive unit on sentry. I imagine this would be suicidal in multiplayer.

Also I imagine the diplomacy is a lot different. Are humans any more trustworthy than the computer?

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SpoD ThE FlOAtiNG HeAd

finbar
Apolyton CS Co-Administrator
Macedonia, Greece
b.02-15-99
posted December 01, 1999 07:39   Click Here to See the Profile for finbarClick Here to Email finbar  send a private message to MarkG Visit finbar's Homepage!
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Bloody good questions! Been a while since they were addressed in a single topic.

IMHO, the major difference between SP and MP, given a reasonable standard of human play, is that your oppo is about 130 times (minimum) more difficult. Humans won't, for example, continue to hurl under-strength units at your city's defenders on mindless suicide missions.

For many, many other reasons (a lot of which will no doubt appear in this topic), but mainly connected to the stupidity of the AI, I reckon SP and MP are totally different games. In fact, IMHO, MP is where this game really takes off into the realms (I hope) its creator envisaged.

As for trustworthiness, it depends with whom you play. I suspect, on balance, human trustworthiness outstrips the AI's. I'd like to think so anyway.

The only way to find out is to play!

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finbar
Mono Rules!
#33984591

War4ever
Apolyton CS Co-Administrator
Macedonia, Greece
b.02-15-99
posted December 01, 1999 17:36   Click Here to See the Profile for War4everClick Here to Email War4ever  send a private message to MarkG Visit War4ever's Homepage!
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finbar brings up some good points.. especially the part about the ai hurling themselves at your defenses.

Humans have tactics not always good ones but they are more inclined to use them. Plus humans are huge caravan and dip users and unlike taking an AI city.... if you take a human one expect huge attacks on your newfound city the same or very next turn...

Alot of humans are poorly defended especially in the beginnig and you maybe able to walk in and take a few cities quite easily.

Humans tend to ally themselves with the first person they meet.... makes it easier to leap frog ahead in science.

rule of thumb.... if someone won't ally with you... it probably means they have met someone else.... in which case if your unit is superior just attack them. MP is about team work so find a partner and dosy do because if you don't someone else will.

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War is the answer when you need to strike first.

War is the answer when you think you should strike first

war is the answer when you think others may strike first.

Eddy
Apolyton CS Co-Administrator
Macedonia, Greece
b.02-15-99
posted December 03, 1999 20:03   Click Here to See the Profile for EddyClick Here to Email Eddy  send a private message to MarkG Visit Eddy's Homepage!
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The AI is predictable, you know when they'll attack, how they'll attack, and everything... MP... you never know!

Being an ally actually means something! paying a civ to attack someone actually means something!

...and a whole load more!
Eddy

Smash
Apolyton CS Co-Administrator
Macedonia, Greece
b.02-15-99
posted December 03, 1999 20:21   Click Here to See the Profile for SmashClick Here to Email Smash  send a private message to MarkG Visit Smash's Homepage!
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A few differences in war that stand out:
1.The use of stacked units to prevent bribing.The only time the ai uses this is by accident.

2.Taking advantage of terrain.The ai doesn't seem to recognize the difference between mountains and flatlands.

3.Pre worked settlers.

4.Building on good defensive terrain-hills,mountains,forrests.The ai is always on flatland


5.Using diplomats to turn attackers into defenders.I've only seen the ai use this tactic in a limited way.

just a few

Scouse Gits
Apolyton CS Co-Administrator
Macedonia, Greece
b.02-15-99
posted December 03, 1999 22:23   Click Here to See the Profile for Scouse GitsClick Here to Email Scouse Gits  send a private message to MarkG Visit Scouse Gits's Homepage!
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Hey Smash,
We'll buy 1, 3, 4 & 5 but 2 - not so sure! In our HO the AI (albeit A Idiot) does know the different values of terrain - how many times have you seen a catty on a mountain - or are they all out to get us!!!!
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Scouse Gits[1 & 2] - rather pissed on a Friday night
Scouse Gits
Apolyton CS Co-Administrator
Macedonia, Greece
b.02-15-99
posted December 03, 1999 22:24   Click Here to See the Profile for Scouse GitsClick Here to Email Scouse Gits  send a private message to MarkG Visit Scouse Gits's Homepage!
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Sorry - saturday morning!!!!
Spod
Apolyton CS Co-Administrator
Macedonia, Greece
b.02-15-99
posted December 03, 1999 22:39   Click Here to See the Profile for SpodClick Here to Email Spod  send a private message to MarkG Visit Spod's Homepage!
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Hey thanks guys. Anyone ever actually finished an MP game?

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SpoD ThE FlOAtiNG HeAd

Matthew
Apolyton CS Co-Administrator
Macedonia, Greece
b.02-15-99
posted December 04, 1999 10:13   Click Here to See the Profile for MatthewClick Here to Email Matthew  send a private message to MarkG Visit Matthew's Homepage!
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AI's don't build cities on hills, mountains, and the like, and then fill the city with vet pikemen. Nor do they terraform terrain under a city for better defence.
finbar
Apolyton CS Co-Administrator
Macedonia, Greece
b.02-15-99
posted December 04, 1999 22:20   Click Here to See the Profile for finbarClick Here to Email finbar  send a private message to MarkG Visit finbar's Homepage!
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Spod - in my case, no. A couple of concessions to avoid wasting valuable lifetime, but no actual conclusions. For the most part, games sort of disappear off into the unavailabilility ether. Or other people become available, and the game's too far down the track to make a hotjoin a reasonable proposition.

Regardless, there's a hell of a lot of fun to be had along the way.

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finbar
Mono Rules!
#33984591

Ming
Apolyton CS Co-Administrator
Macedonia, Greece
b.02-15-99
posted December 05, 1999 10:58   Click Here to See the Profile for MingClick Here to Email Ming  send a private message to MarkG Visit Ming's Homepage!
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Yeah, I have to agree with most of you. The biggest differences are:

Allies that mean something... Two allied human civs that understand the concept can just kick butt.

Real warfare. Human players that have any experience what so ever can fight far better than the stupid AI. Humans attack in bunchs and waves... the AI attacks one unit at a time, unless their just happens to be two units in range on the same turn.

Many human players focus on building the Happiness wonders in Deity games. The AI doesn't really seem to care to build the happiness wonders.

It's easy to wipe out an AI civ. Any human player is smarter than the AI in defense.

Rasputin00
Apolyton CS Co-Administrator
Macedonia, Greece
b.02-15-99
posted December 05, 1999 14:03   Click Here to See the Profile for Rasputin00Click Here to Email Rasputin00  send a private message to MarkG Visit Rasputin00's Homepage!
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I think MP games are easier because you can form a lasting Alliance (for the right combo of people) unlike an AI that will turn on you eventually. The AI plays to gang up on you because it knows you are the only oponent in the end. In MP there are many combinations that make it interesting, but also easier. As an average or worse player myself, I last longer in a MP than a SP....

Important in a MP game is a GOOD alliance, not always best to ally with first person as you may not be able to trust them long term.

As I always play Raging hordes, defenders is always first priority , but then expansion rapidly is target....

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Rasputin The Mad Monk, Lover of the Russian Queen


C Chulainn
Apolyton CS Co-Administrator
Macedonia, Greece
b.02-15-99
posted December 13, 1999 23:20   Click Here to See the Profile for C ChulainnClick Here to Email C Chulainn  send a private message to MarkG Visit C Chulainn's Homepage!
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The AI may not stack to avoid bribery but it will stack spies or diplos to avoid them being expelled... I've never played MP but it would be a relief to see something different - every game I play ends up with me having a tech lead against a vast global alliance of fundamentalists whose only object is to steal Space Flight.
Spod
Apolyton CS Co-Administrator
Macedonia, Greece
b.02-15-99
posted December 15, 1999 06:34   Click Here to See the Profile for SpodClick Here to Email Spod  send a private message to MarkG Visit Spod's Homepage!
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Spod here.

Is pillaging a good tactic in multiplayer?

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SpoD ThE FlOAtiNG HeAd

finbar
Apolyton CS Co-Administrator
Macedonia, Greece
b.02-15-99
posted December 15, 1999 09:10   Click Here to See the Profile for finbarClick Here to Email finbar  send a private message to MarkG Visit finbar's Homepage!
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If you don't mind wasting a perfectly good unit which will probably be blown to pieces at the first available opportunity.

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finbar
Mono Rules!
#33984591

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