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Author Topic:   The Essential Civ 3 - New Ideas            Current Date/Time: February 23, 2000 18:01:18
raingoon
Warlord

Reg. 08-02-1999

posted February 15, 2000 14:30   Click Here to See the Profile for raingoonClick Here to Email raingoon Edit/Delete MessageReply To & Quote Message IP: Logged, Admin Access Only


SUBMISSIONS ONLY!

Here is where you submit YOUR ONE IDEA for the Essential Civ 3 list. Your idea will be given its own topic thread for debate/discussion.

Guidelines for New Ideas are "anything goes," so long as it is clear how the new idea will enhance the game in Civ 2 terms.

Good luck!

DaveV
Prince

Reg. b.02-15-99

posted February 15, 2000 15:14   Click Here to See the Profile for DaveVClick Here to Email DaveV Edit/Delete MessageReply To & Quote Message IP: Logged, Admin Access Only


Open source AI.
LordStone1
Emperor

Reg. b.02-15-99

posted February 15, 2000 19:18   Click Here to See the Profile for LordStone1Click Here to Email LordStone1Visit LordStone1's Homepage! Edit/Delete MessageReply To & Quote Message IP: Logged, Admin Access Only


Well-designed graphics (not horrible ones like in SMAC).
yin26
Civ3 Winter '99 Apolytoner

Reg. 04-06-99

posted February 15, 2000 23:06   Click Here to See the Profile for yin26Click Here to Email yin26 Edit/Delete MessageReply To & Quote Message IP: Logged, Admin Access Only


Detailed replay, both visually and in written form (hopefully a natural language play-by-play).
EnochF
Prince

Reg. b.02-15-99

posted February 15, 2000 23:28   Click Here to See the Profile for EnochFClick Here to Email EnochF Edit/Delete MessageReply To & Quote Message IP: Logged, Admin Access Only


Easy transition from Cities to Regions for mid- to late-game play. Based on government. Incorporation of Region Capitols, region-wide improvements, and cultivation of resources inside region boundaries.
Grier
Settler

Reg. 02-16-2000

posted February 16, 2000 02:58   Click Here to See the Profile for GrierClick Here to Email Grier Edit/Delete MessageReply To & Quote Message IP: Logged, Admin Access Only


You should be able to custom design units, adding different weapons/armour/transport, and also be able to upgrade a unit at any city with a barracks.
[This message has been edited by Grier (edited February 16, 2000).]
Tiberius
Settler

Reg. 01-26-2000

posted February 16, 2000 03:22   Click Here to See the Profile for TiberiusClick Here to Email Tiberius Edit/Delete MessageReply To & Quote Message IP: Logged, Admin Access Only


Beautiful, animated, 3D - CITY VIEW !!
FinnishGuy
Chieftain

Reg. 06-15-99

posted February 16, 2000 04:32   Click Here to See the Profile for FinnishGuy  Edit/Delete MessageReply To & Quote Message IP: Logged, Admin Access Only


Make the graphics move fast. No slowdowns, none, no matter how many units or cities or whatever graphics items are on screen. FAST, get it? Thanks.
Hugo Rune
King

Reg. 09-25-1999

posted February 16, 2000 04:39   Click Here to See the Profile for Hugo RuneClick Here to Email Hugo RuneVisit Hugo Rune's Homepage! Edit/Delete MessageReply To & Quote Message IP: Logged, Admin Access Only


A fully-featured separate scenario-editing program with an easy-to-use interface, a scripting language, editable graphics and settings (untis, technologies, etc.), and full documentation in the form of both a manual and a good help file.
yin26
Civ3 Winter '99 Apolytoner

Reg. 04-06-99

posted February 16, 2000 18:28   Click Here to See the Profile for yin26Click Here to Email yin26 Edit/Delete MessageReply To & Quote Message IP: Logged, Admin Access Only


...moving up...
Seeker
Prince

Reg. b.02-15-99

posted February 16, 2000 18:37   Click Here to See the Profile for SeekerClick Here to Email SeekerVisit Seeker's Homepage! Edit/Delete MessageReply To & Quote Message IP: Logged, Admin Access Only


To really borrow and take a look at other quality strategy games like Imperialism for trade and diplomacy, Warlords 2 Deluxe for scenario editability, ect. is my most important suggestion
Dr Strangelove
Warlord

Reg. b.02-15-99

posted February 16, 2000 23:44   Click Here to See the Profile for Dr StrangeloveClick Here to Email Dr Strangelove Edit/Delete MessageReply To & Quote Message IP: Logged, Admin Access Only


Real combat screens:
For each battle the computer generates a de novo map that rflects the terrain of the areas around the point of contact. The units from the strategic map would be broken down to smaller units deployed in the battle map. This would work well in conjunction with custom made units, i.e., you would decide how many infantry brigades, cavalry brigades and artillery brigades to put in your armies. The player would manuever, attack, and defend with his units.
raingoon
Warlord

Reg. 08-02-1999

posted February 17, 2000 05:03   Click Here to See the Profile for raingoonClick Here to Email raingoon Edit/Delete MessageReply To & Quote Message IP: Logged, Admin Access Only


Grier --

You already nominated Hex Based Maps as a new idea. Only one nomination per category. Which do you want to nominate?

raingoon
Warlord

Reg. 08-02-1999

posted February 17, 2000 05:06   Click Here to See the Profile for raingoonClick Here to Email raingoon Edit/Delete MessageReply To & Quote Message IP: Logged, Admin Access Only


Seeker --

Borrowing from other games is not a new feature. Sorry if that wasn't clear. Can you be more specific -- which of those other game features do you want to see?


current up to this post
[This message has been edited by raingoon (edited February 17, 2000).]

Tiberius
Settler

Reg. 01-26-2000

posted February 17, 2000 06:06   Click Here to See the Profile for TiberiusClick Here to Email Tiberius Edit/Delete MessageReply To & Quote Message IP: Logged, Admin Access Only


In my opinion, we should combine LordStone1 and FinnishGuy proposals and send this very clear message to Firaxis: Well-designed AND fast graphics! (poor Firaxis). Of course, only if they both agree with this.

FinnishGuy
Chieftain

Reg. 06-15-99

posted February 17, 2000 08:13   Click Here to See the Profile for FinnishGuy  Edit/Delete MessageReply To & Quote Message IP: Logged, Admin Access Only


Sure why not combine the proposals, but I prefer word order "fast and well-designed".
Dobermann
Warlord

Reg. 11-18-1999

posted February 17, 2000 09:38   Click Here to See the Profile for Dobermann  Edit/Delete MessageReply To & Quote Message IP: Logged, Admin Access Only


well..
Nativepop/CIVilans
..either one is fine for me
raingoon
Warlord

Reg. 08-02-1999

posted February 17, 2000 14:04   Click Here to See the Profile for raingoonClick Here to Email raingoon Edit/Delete MessageReply To & Quote Message IP: Logged, Admin Access Only


Dobermann,

What language do you want to use for the nativepop/CIVilians idea? (I posted on the CIVilians idea myself recently -- are you referring to that?) I just need to know how you think this idea should be described so others will understand... - raingoon

raingoon
Warlord

Reg. 08-02-1999

posted February 17, 2000 14:08   Click Here to See the Profile for raingoonClick Here to Email raingoon Edit/Delete MessageReply To & Quote Message IP: Logged, Admin Access Only


Lordstone1 -- okay to add your idea into Finnishguy's nomination?

Dobermann
Warlord

Reg. 11-18-1999

posted February 17, 2000 14:46   Click Here to See the Profile for Dobermann  Edit/Delete MessageReply To & Quote Message IP: Logged, Admin Access Only


AH, then I say..
Include a virtual population with its own agenda/needs/desires
is that good enough?
bcr3
King

Reg. 08-02-1999

posted February 17, 2000 15:56   Click Here to See the Profile for bcr3Click Here to Email bcr3 Edit/Delete MessageReply To & Quote Message IP: Logged, Admin Access Only


OK, with all these micromanagement suggestions, let me throw out one a suggestion to make certain they don't take over the game...

Instead of Chieftain, Warlord, etc. being governed by progressively tougher AIs, have each level include more advanced features. For example, Chieftain would be a lot like Civ 2, with just a few new concepts (such as, perhaps, the LASS system) and using the new interface. Deity would include all the new features: regions, battle maps, customizable units, civilian population with its own agenda, etc., etc., etc.

I make this suggestion because I am quite fond of designing scenarios, and many scenarios would not be able to handle so many complicated features. For example, if you were playing a scenario based on an alien invasion, do you want to deal with domestic problems? Of course not, the great premise of sci-fi is that if the Earth were invaded, we would all band together, right? So if you want to keep that mood, you would play the scenario on Chieftain or Warlord level, whereas if you wanted to get a more realistic experience, you would play Emperoro or Diety.

OK, that suggestion only applies if they decide to include all this micromanagement stuff, but that's my contribution to the pot.

------------------
Anarchist Supreme of the Glorious PROT! :)
Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of the Audentior Independant Nation.

Frank: "You live at Apolyton, don't you?"
bcr3: "Pretty much."

waynehead
Chieftain

Reg. 11-21-1999

posted February 17, 2000 17:22   Click Here to See the Profile for wayneheadClick Here to Email waynehead Edit/Delete MessageReply To & Quote Message IP: Logged, Admin Access Only


The ability/option to create provinces or states within an empire after a certain threshold, and both penalties and bonuses for doing so.
Seeker
Prince

Reg. b.02-15-99

posted February 17, 2000 18:45   Click Here to See the Profile for SeekerClick Here to Email SeekerVisit Seeker's Homepage! Edit/Delete MessageReply To & Quote Message IP: Logged, Admin Access Only


OK. Scenario Editor then.
Aurelius
Warlord

Reg. 12-16-1999

posted February 17, 2000 20:25   Click Here to See the Profile for Aurelius Visit Aurelius's Homepage! Edit/Delete MessageReply To & Quote Message IP: Logged, Admin Access Only


A universal log editor for not just OCC (One City Challenge,) but any civ game.

To elaborate just a bit, I would like to see a Civ3 feature that provides a turn by turn summary of the game events that can be edited as fits the player's need--example:


OCC Game
3500 BC Alphabet
3400 BC Hut-50gd
.
.
.
20 AD Contact-Romans
.
.
.
1645 AD Ship Arrives in Alpha

Making logs in multicity games is too complex but a computer could do it trivially and players could compare games as well as analyze play....

The use of logs is very good in competition as any good game must have a way of being recording.

Aurelius


Theben
Moderator

Reg. b.02-15-99

posted February 17, 2000 21:27   Click Here to See the Profile for ThebenClick Here to Email Theben Edit/Delete MessageReply To & Quote Message IP: Logged, Admin Access Only


Moderators get to pick two, right?

'cuz I'd really love to see both LASS/CLAS-D combat used and see espionage/diplomatic missions as opposed to units. Also just about everything from don Don's original SUPPLY, MOVEMENT, etc. posts. Okay that makes three.

If I have to settle for one I'll pick the combat.

------------------
Theben
Co-Moderator of the Civ3 Forums


raingoon
Warlord

Reg. 08-02-1999

posted February 18, 2000 03:31   Click Here to See the Profile for raingoonClick Here to Email raingoon Edit/Delete MessageReply To & Quote Message IP: Logged, Admin Access Only


Seeker, scenario editor already nominated. Care to add to that thread by seconding and nominate another idea?

Theben, could you be a little more descriptive about what combat your talking about?


(Korn469, aside from where I've asked for clarification, this thread is current up to this post -- she's all yers!)
[This message has been edited by raingoon (edited February 18, 2000).]

Zanzibar
Settler

Reg. 12-18-1999

posted February 18, 2000 07:23   Click Here to See the Profile for ZanzibarClick Here to Email Zanzibar Edit/Delete MessageReply To & Quote Message IP: Logged, Admin Access Only


Introduction of Tourism in the game.
Certain buildings (obsolete Wonders, "World's Biggest"-s, museums, hotels, casinos, "Disney Land"-s, etc), some natural resources (for example: wine, snowy mountains), natural wonders, a good reputation, a well-developed infrastructure and ...(I don't know what else, I'll wait for your ideas), to generate extra money: tourism gold.
Adm.Naismith
Warlord

Reg. 10-25-1999

posted February 18, 2000 07:35   Click Here to See the Profile for Adm.Naismith  Edit/Delete MessageReply To & Quote Message IP: Logged, Admin Access Only


Simultaneous turns of play - During a turn, every AI and human player place his/her/its order, (dynamic as movement or attack, to alert as counter fire or sentry or simply building & management). When every player end the turn the computer (as a "game master") put in effect and resolve every order. Units in movement can fall in ambush, defensive units (if alerted) react to attack more realistically, fighter scramble, nuclear MAD, etc.
You can see all this happening as a continuos animation (computer zooming here and there without the loss of general scenario).

Some rules are needed to resolve conflicting orders (you can't fund adiacent city by different settler, can't end same Wonder in two different cities, etc.) but you can have a better use of time (better multiplayer support, not PBEM), and some mix of TBS and RTS strong points.

------------------
Adm.Naismith AKA mcostant

Matthevv
Settler

Reg. 03-09-99

posted February 18, 2000 08:59   Click Here to See the Profile for MatthevvClick Here to Email Matthevv Edit/Delete MessageReply To & Quote Message IP: Logged, Admin Access Only


Rise and fall of empires. As your empire expands, it should be increasingly likely to be split by civil war, rebellion, etc. In the end all empires would disintegrate, and you would have to start again to try and build a new one.
Steve Clark
Warlord

Reg. 10-12-1999

posted February 18, 2000 13:44   Click Here to See the Profile for Steve Clark  Edit/Delete MessageReply To & Quote Message IP: Logged, Admin Access Only


To be able to PAUSE during the AI moves. Sometimes when the AI is attacking (in CivII), battles go by very quickly and then the map jumps to another battle or to move somewhere. By pausing after each battle or move (perhaps an optional dialog box with a continue control?), the user is better able to determine what the AI is coming at you with.
Audevourahn
Settler

Reg. 02-18-2000

posted February 18, 2000 18:00   Click Here to See the Profile for AudevourahnClick Here to Email AudevourahnVisit Audevourahn's Homepage! Edit/Delete MessageReply To & Quote Message IP: Logged, Admin Access Only


Space cities and units. SPACE SPACE SPACE!!!!!!!!!!!
Audevourahn
Settler

Reg. 02-18-2000

posted February 18, 2000 18:12   Click Here to See the Profile for AudevourahnClick Here to Email AudevourahnVisit Audevourahn's Homepage! Edit/Delete MessageReply To & Quote Message IP: Logged, Admin Access Only


I could find no place to put all of these suggestions, so I will put em here. Tell me where to put em if there is a better place!

I would suggest the following to beef up civ3 (I originally wrote this up for ctp2, but bear these toughts in mind nevertheless):
-Have a proper city view like civ2
-Continue the use of the build cue (que, whatever)
-Give more info about what is being built in the cities (when it is built in the city)
-Put all pertinent info on one city window(happiness, food, units, cash production, industrial production)
-Keep those great underwater and space cities(but make em' MUCH more efficient to get at)
-Civ and civ2 had a city viewing button, which was cool. It let you see what your empire actually looks like. Add this feature for certain, but be sure to update the appearance of the buildings as time passes.
-Be SURE to have the game last longer.
-Make the game continue if you win, like in civ2(i'm mentioning civ2 a lot, get the picture?)
-Make the space view once again, and perhaps add another couple of layers to it. More orbit levels, or even make it possible to colonize the planet's moon.
-Make more units available.
-Keep the unit stack idea, its very efficient
-Make it possible to name ships and units, and have a screen that allows the player to access the unit with these assigned names.(do not make this idea compulsory, however, it will rather tick me off to have to assign names to things if i'm trying to play fast)
-The old goto feature with route tracing was a good idea, keep it!
-I want a unit upgrade wonder, like the leonardo's workshop in civ2
-Have detrimental wonders, make it possible to really screw the other players with your wonders
-The visible trade routes in ctp are good, but try not to make them so bogging.
-Keep the caravan as it is in ctp.
-MORE GOVERNMENTS!!!!!!!
-Include national borders on the map.
-let the player assign the area that the city will draw it's food from. It would be nice if you could assign areas for this outside of the traditional city radius, so you can have vast grain producing areas in a agricultural area, and position your cities in an area wich provides more efficient production.

Don't rush, rushing makes for bad games. I want scenarios included, and world maps included. Have fun, and do a great job!!!

carnide_
Warlord

Reg. 08-08-1999

posted February 18, 2000 20:13   Click Here to See the Profile for carnide_Click Here to Email carnide_ Edit/Delete MessageReply To & Quote Message IP: Logged, Admin Access Only


I'd like to have 3 maps on one: The political map (as in CIV1/2), the Religion map (Only possyble after Monotheism), The Market Dominance map (After the Corporation)
You could win: as in CIV1/2 by military conquest/AC, but also by converting all the map to your religion, or by market dominance of all the map.
In this way, a small, no army, country could be a major power in the game (Vatican, Swiss, ...).
Atahualpa
King

Reg. 03-23-99

posted February 19, 2000 03:56   Click Here to See the Profile for AtahualpaClick Here to Email Atahualpa Edit/Delete MessageReply To & Quote Message IP: Logged, Admin Access Only


Only ONE???
Okay, then I say: STACKED COMBAT (or combined combat or lets say: a better UNIT-model!)

aTa

LoD
Settler

Reg. 01-15-2000

posted February 19, 2000 08:14   Click Here to See the Profile for LoDClick Here to Email LoDVisit LoD's Homepage! Edit/Delete MessageReply To & Quote Message IP: Logged, Admin Access Only


Advanced population dislocation control system.

What I mean by this, is a system that would allow you to move citizens between existing cities, without the use of Settlers/Engineers/Colony Pods/whatever.


LoD

VetLegion
Chieftain

Reg. 09-24-1999

posted February 19, 2000 16:59   Click Here to See the Profile for VetLegionClick Here to Email VetLegion Edit/Delete MessageReply To & Quote Message IP: Logged, Admin Access Only


You said just new ideas. But I can live without them and I cant live without an old one: animated water.
raingoon
Warlord

Reg. 08-02-1999

posted February 19, 2000 18:45   Click Here to See the Profile for raingoonClick Here to Email raingoon Edit/Delete MessageReply To & Quote Message IP: Logged, Admin Access Only


ENERGY

This idea is essential because though it is one idea it adds or fixes many things. For instance it fixes ICS because the main reason people were able to expand so easily in Civ 2 was that it didn't cost them anything to do so.

In the Energy Model that I posted to The List forum, the larger the Civ the more energy resources required to support it. That way ICS theoretically remains possible, but a player would have to have huge amounts of resources. Some features of the model:

Unit construction now includes "energy barrels" along side production shields;
Adds new levels of strategy to trade, unit supply, and movement;
Players must also compete for strategic control of seeded natural resources "Coal Deposits," "Oil Fields," and "Uranium Deposits."


[This message has been edited by raingoon (edited February 19, 2000).]

Gearyman
Settler

Reg. 02-18-2000

posted February 19, 2000 19:15   Click Here to See the Profile for GearymanClick Here to Email GearymanVisit Gearyman's Homepage! Edit/Delete MessageReply To & Quote Message IP: Logged, Admin Access Only


Expanding City Radius

As a city grows in way of population and improvements, the radius of the city itself should grow too. Instead of only occupying one of the squares, it could take up 2, 3, maybe 4 as the city grows. As this happens, maybe include more squares that the city can use for food, shield, and trade production.

Maybe also as cities grow, if two cities were close together, they might grow together (e.g. Dallas/Ft. Worth).

Theben
Moderator

Reg. b.02-15-99

posted February 19, 2000 20:48   Click Here to See the Profile for ThebenClick Here to Email Theben Edit/Delete MessageReply To & Quote Message IP: Logged, Admin Access Only


raingoon, have you forgotten the combat systems that were described in the Lists already? I'll have to bump it.

Audevourahn, you may only choose One item for discussion.

raingoon
Warlord

Reg. 08-02-1999

posted February 20, 2000 04:18   Click Here to See the Profile for raingoonClick Here to Email raingoon Edit/Delete MessageReply To & Quote Message IP: Logged, Admin Access Only


Theben, thanks for pointing that out. Might I suggest you choose which language from the Combat thread you want to use to describe LASS/CLAS-D? It'd be helpful, at a glance, to those who have no idea.

Korn469, heads-up to this idea. If you're up and running on this thread now, note thes outstanding issues: Theben's idea still needs to be posted and Seeker hasn't responded on what he wants to do about his (see above).

Imran Siddiqui
Emperor

Reg. b.02-15-99

posted February 20, 2000 04:45   Click Here to See the Profile for Imran SiddiquiClick Here to Email Imran SiddiquiVisit Imran Siddiqui's Homepage! Edit/Delete MessageReply To & Quote Message IP: Logged, Admin Access Only


One thing, eh? Well then Improved Trade like in Imperialism, but tailored for Civ.
korn469
Prince

Reg. 04-30-99

posted February 20, 2000 14:35   Click Here to See the Profile for korn469Click Here to Email korn469Visit korn469's Homepage! Edit/Delete MessageReply To & Quote Message IP: Logged, Admin Access Only


raingoon,

i'm on it...got the afternoon set aside to manage the thread

korn469

korn469
Prince

Reg. 04-30-99

posted February 20, 2000 16:07   Click Here to See the Profile for korn469Click Here to Email korn469Visit korn469's Homepage! Edit/Delete MessageReply To & Quote Message IP: Logged, Admin Access Only


thread is current to this post

unresolved issues are:

seeker picking his idea, and Audevourahn
limiting his idea to just one thing (if he doesn't want space cities)

Frank Johnson
GameLeague

Reg. b.02-15-99

posted February 20, 2000 17:38   Click Here to See the Profile for Frank JohnsonClick Here to Email Frank JohnsonVisit Frank Johnson's Homepage! Edit/Delete MessageReply To & Quote Message IP: Logged, Admin Access Only


Supplies lines, dependancey on fresh supplies in order to maintain fighting effectiveness of a units.

This could easily be shown by giving a unit a resistance value of 1 to 10.

Early warriors and settlers could sustain large and distant marches, thus having a resistance of 10, and Modern units like, armor ect, which require fuel ect would have a resistance of 1, and cant wander too far from supplies without losing fighting effectiveness.

You could select "view supply lines" and the map would sow the supplies that could reach various squares. The closer to cities, allied cities, or special supply units, the better supplies are. THe supplies reach less effectively over rough terrian, or enemy lines obviously.

Father Beast
Settler

Reg. 02-02-2000

posted February 20, 2000 18:10   Click Here to See the Profile for Father BeastClick Here to Email Father Beast Edit/Delete MessageReply To & Quote Message IP: Logged, Admin Access Only


how about being able to set borders, not just between civs, but to separate regions within your own civ. with each region having its own tax rate, troop support, units and improvements queue.
yin26
Civ3 Winter '99 Apolytoner

Reg. 04-06-99

posted February 20, 2000 23:49   Click Here to See the Profile for yin26Click Here to Email yin26 Edit/Delete MessageReply To & Quote Message IP: Logged, Admin Access Only


-=*bump*=-
Stefu
King

Reg. b.02-15-99

posted February 21, 2000 11:34   Click Here to See the Profile for StefuClick Here to Email StefuVisit Stefu's Homepage! Edit/Delete MessageReply To & Quote Message IP: Logged, Admin Access Only


I think religion should be implemented the way it was presented in religion thread - entity that is not dependent of civilizations, that spreads on its own power and competes with other religions, but which would still have huge impact on game and nations.
Pythagoras
Prince

Reg. b.02-15-99

posted February 21, 2000 18:17   Click Here to See the Profile for PythagorasClick Here to Email PythagorasVisit Pythagoras's Homepage! Edit/Delete MessageReply To & Quote Message IP: Logged, Admin Access Only


I want a revamped trade system that effects diplomacy and vice versa. For instance, one could argue that why we sided with the allies in WWII/WWI because of the economic ties with that country. Essentially, I want economic ties (uncontrolled by the user) to be complementary to diplomatic ties (controlled by the user). Going against the flow of your nations 'economic will' in the diplomatic arena would be detremental to your trade and income and detremental to your own people's happiness with you as a ruler.
korn469
Prince

Reg. 04-30-99

posted February 22, 2000 15:27   Click Here to See the Profile for korn469Click Here to Email korn469Visit korn469's Homepage! Edit/Delete MessageReply To & Quote Message IP: Logged, Admin Access Only


thread is current to this post

korn469

Slingshot
Chieftain

Reg. 06-03-99

posted February 22, 2000 17:30   Click Here to See the Profile for Slingshot  Edit/Delete MessageReply To & Quote Message IP: Logged, Admin Access Only


A killer soundtrack. It should be:
1. Big, as in LOTS of tracks to choose from
2. Diverse, with the ability to select/disable tracks for playback
3. Different for each age, or even based upon how well the player's civ is doing
4. High quality - heck, even console games are in Surround Sound(TM)these days. Just say No to MIDI

Some individual music selections are suggested in the Music for CIV III thread under General Suggestions

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