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Topic:   Leaders Format for Better Printing
Paul Crocker
Warlord
Slidell, LA, USA
Jul 1999
posted July 14, 1999 13:24   Click Here to See the Profile for Paul CrockerClick Here to Email Paul Crocker  send a private message to Paul Crocker
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Hello all. I'm new to "helping out" with the Clash project, as I just found out about it. From what I've read so far though, things look like they're going really well!

My background probably would best be put to work with the military model (I'm a veteran and history buff) and the mapping model/world building model (I'm now a GIS/Remote Sensing Analyst...I make maps for a living).

Offhand, I can think of something that might add to the military model, and it's something that might help set Clash apart from many Civ clones. I haven't seen much about military leadership in any of the models (aside from the characters, which are a step removed from what I'm thinking of...) Historically, the military leaders (company grade on up to general staff) have had a HUGE effect on the effectiveness of a military campaign.

Leaders range from very cautious to bold to reckless. The society (IE government type) that they come from often affects the type of leader they become. FE Montgomery, being British, was very cautious and guarded against high losses. Many historians attribute his caution to the horrendous losses suffered by the British in WWI. FE In the Gulf War, the Iraqi leaders were so fearful of their own commanders that they exhibited very little initiative.

What I'm suggesting is that we factor military commanders into the model as strength modifiers, especially if the player chooses to give broad guidlines to their military (strategic level). Actions by the player will affect those commanders at his disposal, and he/she can hire or sack commanders at his discretion using those leaders available to him. FE a player may choose to put his cautious leaders in charge of the home garrison, and put a "Rommel" in charge of the chariot attack against the enemy. Of course, if his gov't is too dictatorial, his "Rommel" may not exhibit enough initiative if facing a general from a more democratic society.

One more example to make my point. Stephen Ambrose pointed this out best, IMO... He gave the example of the Nazis assuming that their race of "super" warriors were the best in history, and that the Allied (democratic) culture was inferior at producing strong soldiers. They were proven wrong at Normandy, where Ambrose proposed that the fighters of democracy succeeded through individual initiative in a very tight spot. Ambrose suggested that the company grade officers and NCO's saved the day (and the invasion) by displaying intiative that was rarely shown by the German soldiers in that theater (of course many of the "Germans" facing them were actually Russian POW's!)

Any comments? If there is an interest in pursuing this, I can work on a method of fitting it into the current military model with a minimum of micromanagement by the player.

------------------
Paul

Paul Crocker
Warlord
Slidell, LA, USA
Jul 1999
posted July 14, 1999 17:03   Click Here to See the Profile for Paul CrockerClick Here to Email Paul Crocker  send a private message to Paul Crocker
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I forgot to mention that I might be interested in helping with the graphics for Dominique...just not sure what skills are required for this portion of the project. I have some computer skills, but they are pretty specific to GIS (eg Avenue, AML, etc) Where is the thread showing who is in charge of each team? I can't seem to find it (my apologies if it's been right under my nose!)
Kull
Clash of Civilizations
Diplomacy & Web Editor

El Paso, TX USA
Mar 99
posted July 15, 1999 01:44   Click Here to See the Profile for KullClick Here to Email Kull  send a private message to Kull Visit Kull's Homepage!
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Paul, thanks for the offer to help out. Mark Everson is out-of-pocket for a bit, but should be back next week. Things slowed down a lot over the last month, but I suspect that's largely because he wasn't around to beat us into shape!

He's a real slave driver, so I think everyone else took a vacation right about the time he disappeared! It's usually a LOT more hectic around here.

To get a feel for what's going on, take a look at the various models which are posted below (Military, Government, Economic, Social, Research, & Diplomacy) There's also plenty of geek-speak in the programmer threads!

I bumped up the "Leader List", per your request.

Mark_Everson
Clash of Civilizations
Project Lead

Canton, MI, USA
b.02-15-99
posted July 18, 1999 16:30   Click Here to See the Profile for Mark_EversonClick Here to Email Mark_Everson  send a private message to Mark_EversonSend a Message to UIN: 30578681 Visit Mark_Everson's Homepage!
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Hi Paul:

Glad to have you in the group.

On the military leadership thing, my personal opinion is that we already have a lot of what you're looking for represented in either the character stuff or the overall military effectiveness numbers that are planned. Overall mil effectiveness will include things like 'social status' of the army in the culture, war colleges, and other factors. In addition the AIs (and possibly cultures) will probably have a risk-taking value that will influence the military risk taking desires of soldiers in the culture. If you want to write up a proposal for your ideas we could look it over and see what the group thinks.

-Mark

Paul Crocker
Warlord
Slidell, LA, USA
Jul 1999
posted July 19, 1999 10:40   Click Here to See the Profile for Paul CrockerClick Here to Email Paul Crocker  send a private message to Paul Crocker
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I looked into the other models in more detail, and I see what you mean. I guess that the details to which I was referring could best be described as "chrome" in this case . Since they wouldn't add anything too dramatic to the model, it is probably best to leave things as they are at the moment. It may become clearer down the road that a "leadership" element could be implemented in some way to add to the game, but until then...I'll look into the map-making model and see how I can help out. It appears that the military model is pretty much complete (aside from the coding)?
Mark_Everson
Clash of Civilizations
Project Lead

Canton, MI, USA
b.02-15-99
posted July 19, 1999 18:56   Click Here to See the Profile for Mark_EversonClick Here to Email Mark_Everson  send a private message to Mark_EversonSend a Message to UIN: 30578681 Visit Mark_Everson's Homepage!
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Paul:

Well, I wouldn't call the mil model complete, just because there are so many details yet unresolved. (I think Druid would agree, Its just a Very big job) However, I do agree that its probably far enough along to switch over to plans for what exactly goes into the first sketchy alpha version. The map/terrain model will certainly be a valuable thing for you to work on. Keep us posted .

-Mark

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