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Topic:   Diplomacy Model v1.1 Format for Better Printing
Mark_Everson
Clash of Civilizations
Project Lead

Canton, MI, USA
b.02-15-99
posted January 21, 2000 12:55   Click Here to See the Profile for Mark_EversonClick Here to Email Mark_Everson  send a private message to Mark_EversonSend a Message to UIN: 30578681 Visit Mark_Everson's Homepage!
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Darren:

I gave a basic overview of what I think we need in my post of Dec. 27th 11:18 and the following post. Obviously you can't make everything perfect in the first shot. We also need some way for the player to provide overall diplomatic objectives on the overall screen. My take on the big picture is for you to put together some semblance of the overall diplomatic interface, and have a single second-level interface for negotiating deals. I'd say at this point we should limit the deals to changes of diplomatic status. The diplomatic status negotiations should include the ability to give or take money either in a single amount, or a continuous stream.

I would say we need to just stumble along with the current diplomatic AI, and simple modifications thereof for this pass at it. I think we can include reputation, and the money changing hands I talked about above in a fairly simple way. We will need to address the diplomatic AI in much more detail fairly soon, but I don't think this is the time...

Henrique Duarte
Chieftain
Portugal
Jan 2000
posted January 21, 2000 13:13   Click Here to See the Profile for Henrique DuarteClick Here to Email Henrique Duarte  send a private message to Henrique Duarte
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Mark

Sooorry
Open the AI and the Diplomatic threads at the same time and as the last post on the diplomatic thread discussed AI issues I rushed in thinking it was the AI thread.

Krenske
Chieftain
Toowoomba Qld Australia
Oct 1999
posted January 23, 2000 18:50   Click Here to See the Profile for KrenskeClick Here to Email Krenske  send a private message to Krenske
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Mark,
I just saw your post.

Here is a cut version of my points.

We could split territroy status into the following, we could have claimed territory, treaty territory, settled territory and defended territory.

Claimed territory is what your explorers basically do, they run around planting a few flags. These have no real effect except that they can lead to treaty territory, where two civs can decide on a mutual border within shared claimed territory.

Treaty teeritory and borders is a border between two civs, but there is nothing there exploitation or settlement wise. This is still not a very "strong" border. It would be possible to have border disputes over these treaty borders. (IE demand a resurveying of the border in diplomacy and If you have become more powerful the other civ may look the otherway when the border changes slightly in your favour. Not accepting a change could be a war excuse that circumvents parliament or the senate in pathetic democracies etc.)

Settled territory forms a more firm border as the populated area has feelings of belonging to the Civ and do not share resources. Borders can not be adjusted through settled territory.

Defended territory is where you have actually stationed defences/guards on a border that is or is not settled. This sort of border can only be changed by military action. Note we could have a border post as a improvement that costs a gold a turn to maintain. You could eventually allow your border posts to just be abandoned but this would be an invitation for someone else to come and make a claim on your territory.

Just a few ideas. (To help a thread needing some action)

Kull
Clash of Civilizations
Diplomacy & Web Editor

El Paso, TX USA
Mar 99
posted January 25, 2000 00:42   Click Here to See the Profile for KullClick Here to Email Kull  send a private message to Kull Visit Kull's Homepage!
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Kreske: There's a few problems with your ideas.

1) Claimed Territory: All the tiles in the Clash world are populated, not empty ala Civ2. So planting flags isn't going to be enough to subdue the local culture. You have to either conquer them or ally with them.

2) Treaty Territory: I suspect you're talking about something like the Treaty of Tordesillas which basically gave Brazil to Portugal and the rest of the New World to Spain. I think this would be very difficult to model in Clash. How would the AI know which tiles NOT to claim? Or what's to stop them from "claiming" the whole world? And what about the cultures and civs occupying the "claimed" tiles? It may be realistic, but it sure sounds messy.

3) Defended Territory: This pretty much sounds like "Clash-as-we-know-it". Either you own the province or you don't. And if your garrison is too weak to defend it, look out!

Krenske
Chieftain
Toowoomba Qld Australia
Oct 1999
posted January 25, 2000 01:57   Click Here to See the Profile for KrenskeClick Here to Email Krenske  send a private message to Krenske
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With regards to claimed territory. Current native population has historically been safely ignored by large civs. They just rock up and say you are now part of *****. If the natives rise up thats just a barbarian rebellion.
Lord God Jinnai
Prince
Arnold, Mo 63010
Sep 1999
posted January 25, 2000 10:53   Click Here to See the Profile for Lord God JinnaiClick Here to Email Lord God Jinnai  send a private message to Lord God JinnaiSend a Message to UIN: 57262757 Visit Lord God Jinnai's Homepage!
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Also there was nothing in ur model that from what I saw could show "occupied terriroty" such as with Isreal or disputed territory such as with most of the arab courtries surrounding southern Saudi Arabia FE.
Richard Bruns
Prince
NC, USA
Nov 1999
posted September 22, 2000 22:01   Click Here to See the Profile for Richard BrunsClick Here to Email Richard Bruns  send a private message to Richard Bruns
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What is the current state of this system? Are we still planning on putting it in Demo 5?
Mark_Everson
Clash of Civilizations
Project Lead

Canton, MI, USA
b.02-15-99
posted September 22, 2000 22:10   Click Here to See the Profile for Mark_EversonClick Here to Email Mark_Everson  send a private message to Mark_EversonSend a Message to UIN: 30578681 Visit Mark_Everson's Homepage!
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Still in demo 5, but nothing beyond demo 4 ever got coded. No solid plan for what goes in and what doesn't. Opinions for a minimal model's characterstics would be useful. But preferably from someone who has time to both read the whole discussion and formulate a plan.
Richard Bruns
Prince
NC, USA
Nov 1999
posted September 22, 2000 23:08   Click Here to See the Profile for Richard BrunsClick Here to Email Richard Bruns  send a private message to Richard Bruns
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I read all of the discussion. If everything outlined is coded it should be very nice. I didn't get to play Demo 4 so I don't know what was in there.
[This message has been edited by Richard Bruns (edited September 22, 2000).]
roquijad
Clash of Civilizations
Government Model

Santiago
Nov 1999
posted September 24, 2000 04:04   Click Here to See the Profile for roquijadClick Here to Email roquijad  send a private message to roquijad
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I re-read the model and went through the discussion in some detail. To be honest, the model looks very good but it lacks the specifics of it. IMO, there're too many good ideas but they're mostly all "in the air" with too few precise methods to have them implemented.

As far as I can see, this model can't make it to demo5 in its present state.

That's unless all the equations and formulas are somewhere else I couldn't find...

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