I was thinking if it would be possible to do the same to the difficulty setting as well. 'Super deity' would mean that the first citizen is a red one , and those AI food/production boxes would be even smaller. At king level AI's boxes are same as human, in emperor they are 2 colums narrower and in deity 4 colums. I presume they would be bigger in easier level though I haven't tested.

My assumption is that all this would be dependent of one single variable from which the program derives all the effects I described.

I remember talk about doing this with the first civ, when people talked about a difficulty level 3 harder than emperor. there was this bug at that level which allowed AI civs to grow without limit. the guy telling the story says he bought a city from the chinese with a population over 100. Starvation followed of course....

quote: Originally posted by SCDARS on 04-24-2001 06:30 PM (the discovery of "Barbarian wrath" was likewise)

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Scouse Git[1] -- git1@scousers.net

quote: Originally posted by Father Beast on 04-09-2001 12:34 PM Um, Sorry for asking the obvious, but if your first citizen is red, how do you build anything at all? I don't think turning your only citizen to an elvis would do it. Or would it?

When you get up in cities in ICS, this happens all the time in a new city. Even if you change your citizen to an Elvis, you still get the shield production from the city itself. One shield, 10 turns, a warrior is born and voila... peace and tranquility.

I have made the following changes (marked in red) to the Game.txt file ...

quote: Quoted from the "game.txt" file @DIFFICULTY @width=320 @title=Select Difficulty Level @options Chieftain (easiest) Warlord Prince King Emperor Deity (toughest) God Awful @BARBARITY @width=320 @title=Select Level Of Barbarian Activity @button=Random @default=2 @options Villages Only Roving Bands Restless Tribes Raging Hordes Barbarian Wrath

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Scouse Git[1] -- git1@scousers.net

More testing required but this game hasn't stopped surprising us yet.

Marko Polo I would like to see someone realize the OCC size 1 challenge at deity in a random gigampap with MGE. Tougher to get tribute and very tough to trade with other civs.

And with this new level ...

Now the challenge would appear to be "How high a setting can you beat?"
Naming the levels might be interesting, too.

.
.
Deity
God Awful
S&M
Insane
Lost Cause

.
.
Raging Hordes
Barbarian Wrath
Sands of the Sea

Well, I guess I'll have to try this, too. Not that I was all that good at Deity.

I don't play much on deity, but I'm going to try that barbarian thing and see if it makes any difference.

quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits on 04-25-2001 10:36 AM Well what do you know ! I have made the following changes (marked in red) to the Game.txt file ... @DIFFICULTY @width=320 @title=Select Difficulty Level @options Chieftain (easiest) Warlord Prince King Emperor Deity (toughest) God Awful @BARBARITY @width=320 @title=Select Level Of Barbarian Activity @button=Random @default=2 @options Villages Only Roving Bands Restless Tribes Raging Hordes Barbarian Wrath using WordPad ... and lo and behold the options came up when I opened a new game -- having selected both, I am unable to say whether or not the Barbarian Wrath had any effect, but Carthage a size 1 city (the size 1 city) went into unrest with a red face on the third turn!

I went ahead and added five more lines under "Deity (toughest)". Here are the effects:

Deity1: happiness like SG[1] stated. AI's food box was 7 lines and shield box had 7 columns

Deity2: happiness is worse as the only citizen turns into a black face on the third turn. AI's food box is 6 lines, shield box 6 colums.

Deity3: Food box 5 lines, shield box 5 colums
Deity4: Food box 4 lines, shield box 4 colums
Deity5: Food box 3 lines, shield box 3 colums

At deity6 a strange thing happened. The quillotine blade dropped and "you have conquered the entire world" immediately at 4000BC with a score like 2340.

Conclusion: the harder the difficulty, the quicker the AI cities grow due to smaller food box (at deity5 it's only 2 * 3 = 6). Also AI production is overwhelmining quick. I tried a game where I never founded a city and just kept hitting 'enter' until 1900AD. The map is amazing: there were starving AI cities size 100, cities had all improvements possible and units.. the whole map is full of them. I'd post a nice screen shot if I could There is one drawback, though. Every two turn comes an error msg with buttons "close" and "ignore". With 'ignore' the game continues. I'm not sure if this appear on lower levels.

I've tried three levels above deity and my conclusions are same as yours.
Now I'm going to look at deity 5 and see it works with my computer and MGE.
As for the barbarians, you can only add one level, before the game crashes. But there are definitely many of them !

In any case, the game crashes when you should reach the high score table after retiring, but who cares ?
4 or 5 new levels for civ, that's really great.

Who has discovered that. It must be added in my second version of my no-limits add-on, and the guy sure deserves credit !

Let us not be too enthusiastics !
I can't save or load a game with a super deity level.
I think it has something to do with the fact that the difficulty level appears in a box.
Has anybody any idea on how to solve that ???

I've toyed with other things in the .txt and here's a nice little discovery. You change the number of civ2. Not up, sorry everybody but down.
Simply write * 2 civs and * 1 civ and it works. Great isn't it. You can even play alone.
Edit : all my tests have been with MGE. During the summer holidays I promise to look at this discoveries more thoroughly to prepare a second no-limits add-on.
Any other testers welcome !

quote: Originally posted by Marko Polo on 04-28-2001 05:54 PM I retired from a game where I had 'Barbarian wrath' selected. I gave me 75 bonus points to the score.

What about the other scoring? Have you noticed an increased percentage at all? I think on emperor 10pts= 1% score and its slightly less pts on diety(this is what Im referring to)

I did barb wrath btw and the barbarians spawned and managed to destroy 3 AI capitals! Dont know if they are stronger or it was just a coincidence.

I thought I got a lot of throne room stuff on +1, but on +2, I got a throne room improvement EVERY TURN once I built a city. the thing was maxed out by 2000 B.C.
Another thing is that martial law doesn't seem to work so well. Even with 3 units in a city, I couldn't turn a black face content. he stays red. things get a lot easier once you can build a temple...

I've played out most of a game on +2, and here are some of the highlights.

1200 BC Babylonians build pyramids
475 BC Celts start Xin Yu's War Academy, finish it by 50 BC
250 BC 1 top 5 city size 12, rest size 8
100 AD babyonians discover philosophy.
1000 AD My little civ has learned 6 (count them, 6!) techs, and is finally researching monarchy
1420 I saw an Ironclad off the coast
1570 I finally discover trade
1864 Babylonians discover space flight
1900 Babylonians out of techs to research.

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Scouse Git[1] -- git1@scousers.net

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Scouse Git[1] -- git1@scousers.net

at the bottom of the Rules.txt, there's a @difficulty just before the @attitude section. I added my own levels "God Hates You" and "Lost Cause". It comes up like that in the load game screen. that way you don't get that "difficulty level Worshipful" message.

quote: Originally posted by Father Beast on 04-30-2001 02:46 PM I found it! at the bottom of the Rules.txt, there's a @difficulty just before the @attitude section. I added my own levels "God Hates You" and "Lost Cause". It comes up like that in the load game screen

Sorry FB, but I'd found it yesterday : it doesn't work that well, at least for me. Now, no AI will ever "worship" you, they'll just "god hates you". It's trading a little problem for another !

quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits on 04-30-2001 06:32 AM Oh, and Julius, if you are getting out your hex editor again - is there any chance of removiing the 'no more than 250' restriction on the side length of giga-maps - I would like to try out a 'Giga Spindle World'

It shouldn't be too difficult. Just needs some time ! This summer it shall be done.

quote: Originally posted by Julius Brenzaida on 04-30-2001 04:02 PM Sorry FB, but I'd found it yesterday : it doesn't work that well, at least for me. Now, no AI will ever "worship" you, they'll just "god hates you". It's trading a little problem for another !

OOPS! I was hoping, but....

well at least we can play on this level. who's the first to win on God Hates You OCC?

anyone want to try the headstart scenario on one of these?

I just tried it to get plastered. I got a fast growing high production city, and started the collossus, It was halfway done when I got the message that some other civ had started the Collossus. I hurried as much as I could, but they had it done 4 turns before I would have. not knowing what else to do, I built HG, and happiness became less of a problem. until the zulus conquered my capitol and all my cities went into disorder at once!

the High barbs setting is fun. I check the top 5 cities to see how I'm doing, and at one point I saw berlin was number 1, with 4 citizens. a while later, Berlin was number 3, with 3 citizens, and it was now a barbarian city!!

in 1500 BC, I saw that 2 of the top 5 cities were size 5, both roman.
between 1500 and 1000 BC, Wonders grew like mad. the Library, Ming Gardens, Collosus, Great Wall, and Pyramids all went up.
650 BC I saw that of the top 5 cities, 3 were size 8, and 1 was size 11, but was in civil disorder.
600 BC Zulu Elephants came and wiped me out.

ANYWAY, I just played a game on deity +4, and cheated outrageously just to stay in the game without the french hordes wiping me out! I wanted to see how far ahead of the game all the AI civs got.
Got my wish, though I felt pretty pathetic when my exploring trireme was passed by a battleship in 780 AD.

in 1782, the americans built Da Nuke Project.

in 1811, the americans built apollo, neck and neck with the babylonians

in 1840, the americans launched, and arrived in 1858 on AC. Game Over.

at one point, I had set my science to zero, and my trade advisor said I got advances every 4236 turns!

The americans and babylonians were having a bitter war at the same time as their space race.

I found size 40 cities in the top 5 regularly, but when I checked them they were experiencing massive hunger. go figure.

The french conquered one of my cities, and when I cheated a stack of howies and took it back, almost all the improvements were gone, and pop had gone down.