For the last year I have played Age of Empires, and loved it. But lately I have thought it would be good to try Civ2 since it is such a classic.(And since Bruce Shelly was a part of both.)

I am having a hard time with it. I just can't figure out what is going on from the tutorial. The icon of the soldier blinks and I can move him with the numbered keys - left or right or up or down - but it seems to do nothing. What am I moving him to or for?

And it says "press enter" that my turn is over - well, I press it, and nothing happens.

I have no idea what is going on or what the goal is.

In Age of Empires, you can create your villagers and watch them run to forage the berry bushes. You can create docks and watch the fishing boats cast their nets and hear the waves. And you create ax men, priests, stone throwers, chariot archers, etc.

I know there must be a lot of depth in Civ2, that is why I am sticking with it.

But are there just a few basic ABC's of the game play that would help me? I'm not talking about strategy or tons of information. Just a little simple "how to" to help me get beyond this impasse. I really do want to like the game.

That aside, your soldier unit can be used for one of three purposes: (a) defending a city from within it; (b) attacking an enemy unit; (c) exploring the darkness of the surrounding terrain, opening it up for expansion. The choice, of course, depends entirely on where you're currently at in the game.

A suggestion would be to start a new game and choose the option "Accelerated startup" under the Customized rules-screen. This way, the game starts a couple of centuries down the line, and you'll see that you have more units, one or two cities laid down, and more of the map revealed to you - perhaps you've even made contact with other civilizations. You will have made some scientific discoveries as well, enabling you to see some of the implications this will have had on your game.

Also, as finbar suggested, The Great Library thread in the Strategy forum makes for some good reading, eventhough it relates more to the player who's got a few games under his cap - but you'll get there I'm sure!

Anyway, Civ II came highly recommended (just read the reviews at Amazon), but I could just not find the addictiveness that so many others rave about.

The game is very large in concept.Don't expect to know much for awhile.Thats the fun.

When you get stuck,check civlopedia and/or come here.

Keep expanding and exploring.More cities and clear the "black"

Each city has citizens.These citizens work the surrounding land.Conceptually.They produce A.sheilds B.food and C.trade arrows.
A.Sheilds are what you build stuff with.ie-City A produces 5 sheilds.It will take 2 turns to build a 10 sheild warrior.

B.Food is used to feed the citizens and any settlers that are supported by that city.Any extra food beyond that demand is "stored" in the foodbox.When that foodbox is filled,your city grows larger by 1 citizen icon.This icon represents 1000s of people.

C.Trade Arrows are what is used when you set your tax,science and luxury rates.The more arrows you produce,the more you can assign to any or all of the 3 tax categories.

Research Monarchy ASAP.Ceremonial Burial,Code of Laws and Alphabet are required before it can researched.You'll have to acquire at least 1 non Monarchy pre-requisit along the way.When you get it,hold a revolution and switch governments.

You'll see a difference in gold,science and production.You should begin to understand how and why science research works and the value of new advances.Each new government form produces different amounts of resources and science.

Units have individual characteristics and abilities.Some are good for defending while others are better for attacking.Settlers improve the land and build new cities.Caravans deliver goods for profit to other cities and aid in construction of wonders.Diplomats have a range of tasks they can perform.Some units move 1 square while others move 2 or 3.Ships are for the sea and can carry units to other lands for settling,exploring and military campaigns.

You have 3 main areas to consider:
Military-defend your cities and/or take cities from others
Science-new technologies allow better units,city improvements and wonders of the world to be built.
Economics-good old fashioned cash.You can buy stuff with it.Units and city improvements can be rushed by buying up what is left in the sheild box.

Wonders of the World have different effects on your civilization.They are good and you should build some at some point.Consult civolpedia for their effects,cost to build and the technologies required for them to become available.
Beginners will find The Great Library and The Hanging Gardens quite useful.Then again,so will experienced players
Possibly The Great Wall also.

Thats a tiny scratch of the surface.

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Scouse Git[1] -- git1@scousers.net

Will it be worth putting in the effort? Hard to say. I too enjoyed Age of Empires for a while - I too love the fishermen with their nets and all the rest of the splendid eye candy. But, in the end, the strategy and tactics are limited. Sure you must build a good economy and be economical with available resources, but that is not too tough. And the objective is very straightforward, armed forces strong enough to knock out the enemy. He's building up too but if you just grow quick enough and get at him when there is an imbalance of military force you'll win. (And, of coures, in real time it helps to have quick fingers!)

So where is the difference with the civ games?

The answer is that the enemy is much less of a sitting target. The game is constantly moving on - and on more than one front. If you concentrate too hard on building up your military strength you can't advance your science (and when your large army of archers and chariots arrive they meet musketeers or riflemen!); and to achieve faster scientific advance you may need to devote resources to exploration and to developing your land or your cities.

What this leads to is the need for a long term strategy which is then worked through with a wealth of tactical decisions as the game progresses.

And that's another major difference. A game of civ is a long game. You will certainly not complete it at a sitting and may finish up playing one game out over numerous sessions spread over a period of weeks.

The question whether it's going to prove worth it may be answerable by asking the questions will you find yourself wondering, once you've played one or two games, whether you could have done better by following some different approach and will you then get satisfaction out of starting a new game to test out that alternative? And are you up for spending the hours on working through all the tactical actions needed to take that new strategic idea through to a conclusion? If so I predict that you are heading for the addiction that afflicts many of us.

So today, I will study them and go back and dig in the manual. Then try to play the tutorial game again. Still have a lot of questions.

But on the "enter" problem. I press it and it keeps blinking until I press it fast 3 or 4 times in a row. Is that normal?

please feel free to ask any such questions - we all love this silly game and will certainly help a newbie become as addicted as we are ...

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Scouse Git[1] -- git1@scousers.net

You'd do well to hang in until you get the hang of Civilization II, as it's simply the greatest of all turn-based PC games.

That said, part of winning in those games is speed. You got to research fast and act fast and produce. You got to get those resourses coming in and then you got to start pumping out those archers and boats.

At times I have longed for a little breather - when I could just take my time and enjoy the game. But if you spend too much time enjoying in AoE, you get smashed!

So it looks like in one respect, Civ2 may bring me the kind of game where I am not under time pressure. And that is one of the reasons I wanted to learn to play.

This is a great forum. Thanks to all for the encouragement.

sboog

Thanks.

I believe further up you had a post that said you would press Enter several times and nothing would happen. Try this ...

1) Turn the "Wait at end of turn" option back on.
2) Go open your city screen every time you hit the Enter key and take a look at what's going on. You'll notice your production and food boxes getting fuller. Try moving the "workers" around in the terrain map (within the city screen) and take note of the different results. Although this may not appear like much, it is one of the fundamental cores in understanding CIV 2.
3) Exit the city screen and go to your Science Advisor. You'll notice your research bar increasing each turn as well.

Sorry if this post sounds patronizing . . . I'm assuming that you truly thought nothing was happening when you clicked Enter.

Sometimes the "press enter" sign keeps flashing until I press enter 3 or 4 times rapidly.

I'm sticking with it. There's got to be something magical about this game for everyone for years to love it so.

Right now I am trying to figure out all the stuff on the City Display. Haven't got it down just yet.

quote: Originally posted by sboog on 04-05-2001 07:39 PM I just can't figure out what is going on from the tutorial. The icon of the soldier blinks and I can move him with the numbered keys - left or right or up or down - but it seems to do nothing. What am I moving him to or for? sboog

Your first screen should when you start a game should show you a settler, not a soldier. You want to find a nice site to start a city (close to green fields, trees and hills with a square or two, and ideally a river, whales or silk in the vicinity).

Once you have found a nice site, all the advice Smash provided applies

But even with the manual in hand, I just can't seem to get it.

I can get my first city built. (No problem handling the Orders button.)

But then, I want to send a settler to produce something and all that seems to happen is I move him right or left and then if by chance on where I land, a box pops up and the tutorial says I can research something that will enable this or that. Now I see the value in that. But what I want to know is:
1 - What causes that box to pop up? Is it a certain unmarked square I land on?
2 - I can't see anything happening with my settler as far as producing food goes. For example, in AoE you can click on a villager and send him to chop wood, shore fish, build a dock, or pick berries - AND you can SEE him doing it.

I am embarrassed to display my blindness on all of this.

I very much want to like the game and be able to grow with it.

If only the manual had a simple pictorial guide - you know, "This is a settler" "Send him here he does this." Or "send him there and he does that." It's all fine about research and resources, but I just can't get the hang on HOW and WHERE TO MOVE the units to accomplish something.

sboog

These actions take differing amounts of turns to complete depending on the task and the terrain involved ie:its easier to build a road thru flatland than it is thru a mountain pass.

here is what to do:
start a game.
STOP
go to the top and open CIVLOPEDIA.
Go to Game Concepts section(not the manual)
here you will find the info you need.
Consult this CIVLOPEDIA any time you wonder about a city improvement,a technology,a unit,a wonder etc.You should see a list of categories:
Civilization Advances
City Improvements
Wonders of the World
Military units
Governments
Terrain Types
Game Concepts
Search

The City Screen
When you first build a city or later by clicking on it you get a pop up City Screen.Most of it is self explanatory.A very important part of it is the Resource Map

click

Here I have just founded a city.You see the city square producing 2 food icons,1 sheild amd 1 trade arrow.There is one square being "worked".It is a whale.It produces 2 food icons,2 sheilds and 2 trade arrows.That gives me a total of 4 food,3 sheilds and 3 trade arrows which at 60% science in despotism gives me 2 science beakers towards research.This is being generated each turn.

Now,if I move my mouse on to the "workers" on the whale and click it, they "disappear".I can then click on another square and "re-assign" them
click
In this picture I have "moved" my "workers" from the whale to a forest.Notice now it produces just 1 food icon and 2 sheilds.Now my total is 3 food,3 sheilds and 1 trade arrow which at 60% despo gives me 1 science beaker towards research.It will take twice as long to finish my first research...not good.

click

Now,in this picture I have once again "moved" my "worker" from the forest to an unsheilded grass square.That square only produces 2 food right now giving me a total of 4 food,1 sheild and 1 trade arrows.
If I build a road on that square it will produce a trade arrow.If I irrigate it it will produce more food icons-note-irrigation has no effect under the despotism government..another reason to get out of it ASAP.

So,I am best off placing that worker on the whale.That is obvious.Later as my city grows and I get more workers to control,I will need to manage things a little more.The game itself does not automatically place my workers on the best squares.I need to go into the resource map and "manage" my workers from time to time
.ie:if I have 2 sheilded grass squares and 1 has a road,I want to make sure my workers are on the roaded one.Or the irrigated one..or the mined gold square..or the irrigated wheat square etc...

What are you - a Public Relations Consultant for Sid's Games?

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Will give it another good try tonight. Or better yet, on Easter Sunday.

So, sboog, what has your experience been? Do you favor Civ2 over AC or vice-versa? Or have you abandoned these games altogether? If you've abandoned them, I guess you won't be reading this!

quote: Originally posted by Gorgo the Magnificent on 04-06-2001 02:29 AM Great suggestion ColdWizard! I'm sure that's just what sboog was hoping a helpful soul would say! 'Read the manual'... Brilliant! Man, what would we do without you!

I agree and read it by candlelight

Now rwprice, you asked about my idea to learn to play Alpha Centauri at the same time. As good as that game looked when I loaded it (and I really was tempted to start playing)I decided I had all I could deal with just learning Civ2 and giving my thoughts to that for now.

rwprice, how are you doing?

As far as Alpha Centauri, I did the same thing you did. I loaded it and took a look, and was very impressed. But then I figured I had all I could handle in Civ2. I had once looked at the AC demo before I had ever seen Civ2. It didn't even make sense to me and I removed it. Now that I've played Civ2, AC makes much more sense, but I still figured it would be best if I learned the ins and outs of Civ2 first.

quote: Originally posted by rwprice on 05-05-2001 11:54 PM sboog, I go back and forth. Little by little, I'm liking this game increasingly more. I've even tried to leave it for awhile and try something else, but then I decide to start up a new game of Civ2. One problem I have now is that I'll get stuck at some point and can't figure out how to proceed any further. Also, sometimes if I play on a larger map, the sheer breadth of the "world" can seem overwhelming. As far as Alpha Centauri, I did the same thing you did. I loaded it and took a look, and was very impressed. But then I figured I had all I could handle in Civ2. I had once looked at the AC demo before I had ever seen Civ2. It didn't even make sense to me and I removed it. Now that I've played Civ2, AC makes much more sense, but I still figured it would be best if I learned the ins and outs of Civ2 first. I think I'm going to become addicted to Civ2, I just think it might take a while. Any tips on things that enhanced your enjoyment of the game?

Youve undoutedly already figured it out, but civ2 has equivalents to the AOE villagers fishing, farming, etc. Just that they arent units you move around. Instead they are the workers on your city screen. put them on land and they produce food (like your farmers) put them on the sea and they catch fish. Put them on a land square that produces shields and they produce building (like AOE builders) among other things. Put them on a land square that produces arrows and you get gold, like AOE miners. Settler build cities or terrain improvements, they dont actually extract resources like AOE villies.

BTW - Bruce Shelley was not involved in civ2. He was a designer on civ1. I beleive he had already gone to Ensemble and started work on AOE when civ2 came out. Brian Reynolds was the key designer (along with Sid Meiers) on civ2. Brian left to form "Big Huge Games" prior to the main development efforts on civ3. Interestingly Rick Goodman left ensemble and is designing soon to be released empire earth, so in a sense he is a protege of a protege of Sid.

LOTM

Of course, it is turn based and there are other similarities with Civ2 but I would say that it is the differences which are more noticeable.

One striking difference is that the various factions have different strengths and weaknesses (a bit like AoE) whereas in Civ the only substantial differences between the tribes are name, colour and order of move. Also SMAC has quite an attractive little story line. The graphics are a touch gloomy but it can be quite atmospheric.

I suspect, though, that you are right to put SMAC back in the box just for now. Both it and, of course, Civ2 are highly addictive - I think it was Civ which spawned the expression "just one more turn" to describe the way some games keep you stuck at the computer at all hours (by the way, if you have a look in the Civ2 General archives you'll find a number of "You know you've played Civ too long when" threads which are classics - very funny and you get to feel a bit less solitary about indulging in your obsession). Anyway, it might be hard to run two obsessions at once.

In the end I thought I had pretty well got to the bottom of SMAC and that obsession died. One or two intervening games later (notably Baldur's Gate) and I noticed my daughter playing Civ2. One nostalgic game and, hey presto, I was hooked all over again. I thought I would shake it fairly quickly but then I found Apolyton with the result that, this time round, the obsession is still strong six months later.

And I haven't even tried MP yet.

Anyway, welcome to the club, guys. You are pretty plainly hooked.