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Author
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Topic: OCC v2.42 random map succession game |  |
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Paul
Emperor
Zwolle, The Netherlands
Mar 99
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posted January 16, 2001 13:30
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Please post anything related to the 2.42 succession game in this thread.The players: Paul paulvdbelt@hetnet.nl
Scouse Git[1]
Skrobism skrobism@address.com
Hueij j.stavenuiter@chello.nl 4000-2750 Paul
2750-1500 SG[1]
1500-0625 skrobism
0625-0001 Hueij
0001-0500 Paul
0500-1000 SG[1]
1000-1500 skrobism
1500-1750 Hueij
1750-1800 Paul
1800-1850 SG[1]
1850-1875 skrobism
1875-1900 Hueij Each player plays 25 turns before sending the game to the next player. We are playing as the Romans on a random map. Game logs and intermediate saves can be found at http://members.home.nl/paulvdbb/occ242.htm Since this is an OCC game we will of course never have more than one city. So make sure to save the game before entering a hut in grass or plains, so that you can reload if you get an advanced tribe. If you are not familiar with the OCC rules you can find them at http://members.home.nl/paulvdb/occ.htm When you send the game to the next player please cc it to paulvdbelt@hetnet.nl so that I can put the save on my site. |
Paul
Emperor
Zwolle, The Netherlands
Mar 99
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posted January 16, 2001 13:32
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I played my 25 turns and sent the game to SG[1]4000 BC Alphabet
3950 BC Hut: Archer
3900 BC Hut: Code of Laws
3800 BC Rome
3700 BC Hut: Horse (supported)
3650 BC Hut: Pottery
3600 BC Warrior
3350 BC Warrior
3200 BC Bronze Working -> Ceremonial Burial
2750 BC After exploring our surroundings it looks like we are stuck on an island Edit: the website has been updated, so the other players can download the game and see how the situation is.
[This message has been edited by Paul (edited January 16, 2001).] |
Scouse Gits
Settler
b.02-15-99
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posted January 17, 2001 06:41
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SG[1]'s v2.42 OCC Succession LogNote to self: Can play to 1500BC Certainly looks like an island  - not exactly ideal territory either - I keep looking at the SSW corner and wondering, it is certainly a potential special square from what we can see of the pattern, dare I risk the Settler resource? Paul irrigated it so clearly did not think the risk worth taking, but ... 
Neighbours include: Indians, Germans, Egyptians, Zulus and Americans - need to identify the Orange Civ. 2750BC - let's go!
2700BC - might not be an island!
2650BC - Ceremonial Burial -> Monarchy (45 Beakers); I'm going to go for that potential Special - pre-worked Irrigating Settler stopped! (sorry Paul)
2600BC - [cross fingers]Forestation effort started[/cross fingers]; We seem to have an isthmus to somewhere - Warrior parked on Mountain choke point.
2550BC - Aha - Warrior is now 'near Berlin'
2500BC - Size 3; Celebration impossible;
2450BC - SILK!  breath hearty sigh of relief;
2350BC - Cost of Monarchy drops to 40
2300BC - Cost of Monarchy returns to 45
2250BC - Back to 40 
2200BC - hut 50g; cost 45??; Conundrum - I have 39 beakers and make 5 a turn if I leave it at 5 and the cost stays at 45 - we miss Demo this turn by 1 beaker and waste at least 3 next turn - while if the cost comes back down to 40 we get Demo and waste 4 beakers -- alternative move from beakers to shields for this turn - go with alternative...
2150BC - Cost stayed at 45 beakers - get it this next turn - no beakers wasted.
2100BC - Monarchy -> Currency; Colossus exactly half built; Revolution;
2050BC - MONARCHY ESTABLISHED ; The orange civ is English;
1950BC - hut 50g;
1700BC - Currency -> Trade; Horseman now 'near New York' - looks as if Germany is turn South after the isthmus ...
1650BC - regretting not choosing Writing
1600BC - COLOSSUS; start Temple 1500BC - all is well and I pass the conch. Game sent to Paul & Skrobism ------------------
____________
Scouse Git[1] "CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor
"The Great Library must be built!"
"A short cut has to be challenging,
were it not so it would be 'the way'." - Paul Craven |
Paul
Emperor
Zwolle, The Netherlands
Mar 99
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posted January 17, 2001 07:24
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Updated |
skrobism
Warlord
MKE,WI,USA
Oct 2000
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posted January 17, 2001 10:29
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* Skrobism raises the conch above his head. The populace goes wild! *I will probably get to the game tomorrow night. I hope that is ok. Like I said earlier, I don't usually play OCC. This will be good practice for me. Do you have any tips? What are we as a civ going for in this early stage? Beakers, Gold, Trade, Alliances? Let me know. Thanks. ------------------
"Bonjour, you cheese-eatin' surrender-monkeys." |
Carolus Rex
King
Sweden
b.02-15-99
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posted January 17, 2001 16:38
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Interesting mix of players! This will be fun to follow.Carolus |
Hueij
King
Arnhem, The Netherlands
May 99
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posted January 17, 2001 16:58
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quote:
Originally posted by skrobism on 01-17-2001 10:29 AM
Like I said earlier, I don't usually play OCC. This will be good practice for me. Do you have any tips? What are we as a civ going for in this early stage? Beakers, Gold, Trade, Alliances? Let me know. Thanks.
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Read the Paulicy, you can't go wrong http://members.home.nl/paulvdb/occ.htm |
skrobism
Warlord
MKE,WI,USA
Oct 2000
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posted January 19, 2001 09:54
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I will pass the game on tonight. Sorry about the delay.------------------
"Bonjour, you cheese-eatin' surrender-monkeys." |
skrobism
Warlord
MKE,WI,USA
Oct 2000
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posted January 20, 2001 18:59
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1 1500BC Skrobism raises the Conch above his head. The crowd goes wild. All is well.
2 1450BC Our horseman unleshed a hord of Barb horseman and was killed. Civil Disorder in Rome.
3 1400BC Civil DIsorder in Rome. Trade Discovered! Writing begun.
4 1350BC
5 1300BC
6 1250BC
7 1200BC
8 1150BC
9 1100BC Germans start the pyramids.
10 1050BC Entertainers hired, Order is restored in Rome. Egyptians start the pyramids. Writing is discovered. The study of Literacy is started.
11 1000BC Size 4, temple is rushed, entertainer is put to work.
12 950BC
13 925BC Caravan started
14 900BC
15 875BC
16 850BC
17 825BC We are now literate and on our way to the Republic.
18 800BC The Pyramids are built in Berlin. Egyptians changed to Hanging Gardens.
19 775BC
20 750BC
21 725BC
22 700BC Caravan of hides sets out for Berlin. Problem - Where is Berlin?
23 675BC
24 650BC Republic is discovered. Map Making is studied.
25 625BC Our settler has been busy building roads, and mining. He is ready to do your bidding. The Caravan continues to move blindly towards to east. The Revolution can begin next Oedo year. The conch is passed to Hueij.well that wasn't that bad. ------------------
"Bonjour, you cheese-eatin' surrender-monkeys." |
Hueij
King
Arnhem, The Netherlands
May 99
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posted January 20, 2001 19:19
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Skrobism, I got your mail but you forgot to attach the save-file. Can you try again? Tnx. |
skrobism
Warlord
MKE,WI,USA
Oct 2000
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posted January 22, 2001 12:30
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That's really odd.I'll send it again, but it will have to be later tonight. I am really sorry. ------------------
"Bonjour, you cheese-eatin' surrender-monkeys." |
Hueij
King
Arnhem, The Netherlands
May 99
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posted January 22, 2001 14:17
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quote:
I am really sorry.
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Don't be. If I had to pay one dollar every time I forgot to attach a promised file to a message...  |
Paul
Emperor
Zwolle, The Netherlands
Mar 99
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posted January 22, 2001 16:20
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Same here. I've also often forgotten to attach a file I wanted to mail. |
Paul
Emperor
Zwolle, The Netherlands
Mar 99
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posted January 23, 2001 10:06
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I updated the website with Skrobism's save.
[This message has been edited by Paul (edited January 23, 2001).] |
Hueij
King
Arnhem, The Netherlands
May 99
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posted January 27, 2001 08:10
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Save 1 AD on its ay to Paul...The life and times of King, later Emperor Hueij, 625 BC - 1 AD. 550: Gems caravan.
Germans: paid 50 gold for peace, traded Trade and Republic for Masonry and Construction.
Gave Monarchy for an Alliance, received 250 gold as gift. 500: Built Library, Germans started Marco Polo. 450: Built Market Place. Egyptians started Hanging Gardens. 300: Salt caravan. Map Making. Shared maps with Germans, we can reach the Egyptians! 250: Hides to Berlin: 72 gold. 150: Mathematics. 125: Americans destroyed by English. 50: Revolution. 25: Established Republic. Germans invent Horseback Riding. 1 AD: Built Colosseum. Gems to Berlin: 90 gold. Disbanded 2 Warriors. |
Paul
Emperor
Zwolle, The Netherlands
Mar 99
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posted January 27, 2001 13:06
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500 AD save sent to SG[1] 1 AD Start WLTCD, size 6
20 AD Aqueduct
Mysticism
80 AD Build Dye Caravan
100 AD Egyptians: trade Seafaring, Warrior Code; share maps; peace
Germans: trade Banking, Horseback Riding, Wheel
120 AD Salt to Berlin (demanded): 284 gold
140 AD Astronomy
End WLTCD, size 12
Sold Colosseum
160 AD Indians: trade Iron Working; share maps; peace
220 AD Germans: gift 75 gold
Sold Temple
280 AD Philosophy, Medicine
300 AD Trade Engineering; gift 150 gold
340 AD Hut: 50 gold
360 AD Copernicus' Observatory
380 AD Germans: 200 gold for war on English
420 AD Bridge Building
Dye to Berlin (demanded): 304 gold
460 AD Sanitation
500 AD Zulus: they want 250 gold; I refuse; war Website updated
[This message has been edited by Paul (edited January 27, 2001).] |
paiktis22
Warlord
Athens Greece
Oct 2000
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posted January 27, 2001 13:45
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Watching and learning |
Hueij
King
Arnhem, The Netherlands
May 99
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posted January 27, 2001 18:51
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quote:
140 AD Astronomy
End WLTCD, size 12
Sold Colosseum
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Aaaarrgggh!!! Do you know how much trouble I went thru to build that colosseum? Starting with Republic and no Construction? And you tear it down, just like that?... The most satisfying part of my turn was when I had to pay 50 gold for peace with the Germans and got a 250 gold gift the same turn
[This message has been edited by Hueij (edited January 27, 2001).] |
Scouse Gits
Settler
b.02-15-99
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posted January 29, 2001 06:50
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Game sent to skrobism & PaulI guess I can play to 1000AD ? 0500 - Looking good ... what can I mess up?
0520 - Zulus kill our Warrior, German caravan at the gates, Indian! archers just ouside city limits;
0540 - Barbarian landing 3 Legion + King - oops
0560 - Invention -> University
0580 - Barbarian on Silk puts city in disorder - damn didn't catch that one! ; Swamp now Grass
0600 - Barbarian Legion destroys itself against our invincible Archer
0620 - Germans, 250g; Zulus demand 450g, War; Egyptians want war with Indians; Indians maps;
0640 - Maps all round;
0660 - Shakespeare's Theatre; University -> Theory of Gravity; Germans 100g; Egyptians & Indians both refuse alliance; Zulus still intransigent;
0680 - Celebration does NOT start despite having 6 happy and 6 content!! rush Sewers anyway ...;
0700 - Barbarians in lake! three Legions Settler under threat!; Sewers built - no growth - perhaps a food problem with our guests, but ...
0720 - Settler lost; One Legion bites dust ...; Intrepid Archer sallies forth and defeats wounded Legion to revenge the lost Settler - stupid move really!
0740 - Harbour built growth to 13
0760 - Theory of Gravity -> Chemistry (Germans have Demo); Size 14; Zulus Peace; Germans Democracy ;
0780 - University built; Maps with Germans & Zulus; Barbarians again from South ; Size 15
0800 - Size 16; Germans 100g; Zulus ask for 50g for Alliance - then renege!
0820 - Barbarians at the Gates, Archer girds loins for battle.
0840 - Two Legions self immollate against our walls - King captured for 150g; Chemistry -> Gunpowder; Size 18; need 40% luxuries to maintain celebration;
0880 - Size 20;
0900 - Gunpowder -> Metalurgy (no Explosives); Size 21 cannot celebrate anymore;
0940 - Democracy established;
0980 - Metalurgy -> Explosives
1000 - not in bad shape - could be unpleasant with later Barbarians ... ------------------
____________
Scouse Git[1] "CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor
"The Great Library must be built!"
"A short cut has to be challenging,
were it not so it would be 'the way'." - Paul Craven |
skrobism
Warlord
MKE,WI,USA
Oct 2000
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posted January 29, 2001 10:29
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I got the save. I will play very soon.------------------
"Bonjour, you cheese-eatin' surrender-monkeys." |
Paul
Emperor
Zwolle, The Netherlands
Mar 99
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posted January 29, 2001 11:00
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Website updated. |
skrobism
Warlord
MKE,WI,USA
Oct 2000
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posted February 01, 2001 11:53
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I just sent the save to Hueij and Paul. Here is my Hx.
---------------
0-1000AD Barbs land, our archer stands strong
1-1020AD Copper caravan built, we need defenses Musketeers started, our archer continues to fight the good fight
2-1040AD Explosives -> Economics. Barbs continue to fall to our Archer.
3-1060AD
4-1080AD Musketeers built and fortified. Engineer started. Economics -> Conscription
5-1100AD
6-1120AD
7-1140AD Conscription -> Navigation. Engineers built Sir Newton's College started.
8-1160AD All Caravans set to help build Wonder. Engineer busy irrigating.
9-1180AD
10-1200AD
11-1220AD Navigation -> Physics
12-1240AD
13-1260AD
14-1280AD
15-1300AD Indians get navigation for fuedalism, they want Gunpowder for Polytheism. We refuse. India demands Gunpowder and gets nada! India establishes a copper trade route with Rome. Physics -> Atomic Theory
16-1320AD
17-1340AD
18-1360AD Barbs land! Musketeer fights off the hords. Rushed Newton's College. Atomic Theory -> Chivalry
19-1380AD Rifleman being built. Science at 390!
20-1400AD
21-1420AD Chivalry -> Steam Engine
22-1440AD
23-1460AD Riflemen built, Caravan rushed
24-1480AD More Barbs to the north. Steam Engine -> Railroad
25-1500AD Science is at 414.
------------------
"Bonjour, you cheese-eatin' surrender-monkeys." |
Paul
Emperor
Zwolle, The Netherlands
Mar 99
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posted February 01, 2001 12:45
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Website updated. |
Tom DeMille
Prince
Kingston, Ontario, Canada
Jan 2000
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posted February 01, 2001 15:14
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Greetings! This sounds like a fun twist to occ. Checking out the strategy section i see i'm a few "fortnight" games behind. Don't really have time these days to play full games, but this would be right down my alley. Put me down for the next game you start... |
Paul
Emperor
Zwolle, The Netherlands
Mar 99
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posted February 01, 2001 16:05
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Tom, welcome back. The fortnight games aren't exactly fortnighly anymore since the departure of you, Vik and Oldman. So you haven't missed too many games. And I will definately put you down for the next OCC succession game.
[This message has been edited by Paul (edited February 01, 2001).] |
Hueij
King
Arnhem, The Netherlands
May 99
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posted February 01, 2001 18:52
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quote:
This sounds like a fun twist to occ.
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It is. Most of the time your predecessor did things you wouldn't do, so it breaks your "normal" OCC-routine... |
Scouse Gits
Settler
b.02-15-99
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posted February 02, 2001 05:00
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Tom - Welcome back!skrobism - I don't understand the Musk & Rifle? I would have thought that the need was for something on four legs to catch the king or to pre-empt pillaging? Can you explain? ------------------
____________
Scouse Git[1] "CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor
"The Great Library must be built!"
"A short cut has to be challenging,
were it not so it would be 'the way'." - Paul Craven |
skrobism
Warlord
MKE,WI,USA
Oct 2000
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posted February 02, 2001 13:45
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Wow. I think my judgement was attacked by 2 players in only 2 posts. Oops.Can I explain? Hmm. Ok here it is. There were a few times that I was really afraid for Rome because it had only 1 true defender. He is a very noble Archer and seems invincible, but he was alone. It was my intention to build a defender that would be fortified within the city. I suppose building a defender that could roam the city radius would have been another option. But again it was my intention to have him stay put, so why waste the effort of creating something with 4 legs? Besides, I like things that go BANG! I am pretty sure that was my thinking at the time. I did not expect so many Barb attacks. Trust me, when I saw that Barb King sitting there on our North Coast without a defender, I wanted a horseman. edit: maybe 'attacked' was a bit to strong of a word. How about 'challenged'? A bigger concern than troup selection for me is that I am selecting the correct Techs and Wonders. Do you have any suggestions on that?
------------------
"Bonjour, you cheese-eatin' surrender-monkeys."
[This message has been edited by skrobism (edited February 02, 2001).] |
Hueij
King
Arnhem, The Netherlands
May 99
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posted February 02, 2001 18:29
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quote:
A bigger concern than troup selection for me is that I am selecting the correct Techs and Wonders. Do you have any suggestions on that?
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You might want to take a look at Paul's OCC-site, AKA the Paulicy. And don't worry about a 100% science rate if needs be, the Germans more than make up for lost taxes in gifts.I already played a few turns and I changed the caravan you started into an engineer. I also diverged the science-path to refrigeration so we can max out with WLTPD. And sorry, the archer and the musketeer are gone
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Scouse Gits
Settler
b.02-15-99
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posted February 02, 2001 21:53
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Sorry, skrobism - I did not mean to 'challenge' you just to ask for clarification - after all the good old Archer was invulnerable to Barbarian attack (see the GL for the details) so you must have had a rationale for building the more modern units ... I simply asked for the details.
I really enjoy these Succesion Games - if only for the wide variety of strategies that we encounter.
------------------
____________
Scouse Git[1] "CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor
"The Great Library must be built!"
"A short cut has to be challenging,
were it not so it would be 'the way'." - Paul Craven |
Hueij
King
Arnhem, The Netherlands
May 99
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posted February 03, 2001 06:54
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I sent the game to Paul.1500: Changed Caravan-production to Engineer, disbanded Archer.
War with Zulus, 250 gold from Germans. 1510: Engineer, disbanded Musketeer. 1520: Gold Caravan. 1530: Railroad. Traded Steam Engine for Polytheism with Indians. 1540: Wool Caravan. 1560: Magnetism, built Bank. 1590: Electricity, 250 gold from Germans. 1600: Stock Exchange. 1610: Germans start Darwin. 1620: Refrigeration, Galleon. 1640: Supermarket. 1650: Industrialization. 1660: Food Caravan. 1670: 100 gold from Germans. 1680: Corporation, Food Caravan, Gold route to Bombay 222 gold. 1690: Germans changed from Darwin's to Bach. 1700: Steel,
Cease fire with English, gave Industrialization, Conscription, Magnetism and Sanitation. Shared maps.
Food Freight. 1710: WLTPD size 19, Wool route to London 54 gold. 1730: Refining, Food Freight. 1750: Food Freight. |
Paul
Emperor
Zwolle, The Netherlands
Mar 99
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posted February 03, 2001 08:01
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Sent to SG[1]1752 AD Combustion
Germans: gift 250 gold
1754 AD Barbs pillage farmland
1756 AD Build Gold Freight
1758 AD Automobile
End WLTPD, size 25
Germans: gift 100 gold
Zulus: cease fire; gift techs; share maps
Egyptians: gift techs; share maps
English: gift techs; share maps
Indians: gift techs; share maps
1760 AD Superhighways
1762 AD Electronics
Zulus: peace
1764 AD Build Oil Freight
1766 AD Leadership
1770 AD Monotheism
1772 AD Darwin's Voyage: Tactics, Mass Production
1774 AD Machine Tools
1778 AD Mobile Warfare
1782 AD Miniaturization
Oil to Thebes (demanded): 777 gold
Sold Sewer System
Germans: gift techs; get Theology
1784 AD Robotics
Sold Aqueduct
1786 AD Research Lab
1788 AD Robotics
English: trade Nuclear Fission
1792 AD Flight
Build Dye Freight
1796 AD Build Copper Freight
Radio
Germans: get Genetic Engineering
1800 AD Offshore Platform
Advanced Flight
Gold to Hlobane (not demanded): 139 gold |
paiktis22
Warlord
Athens Greece
Oct 2000
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posted February 03, 2001 17:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Paul on 02-03-2001 08:01 AM
Germans: gift 250 gold
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The Germans are very nice people no? All these GIFTS! You restored my faith in civ alliances |
skrobism
Warlord
MKE,WI,USA
Oct 2000
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posted February 05, 2001 14:47
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SG,
Challenge me all you want. I don't mind. Now that I know the archer was truly invincible, I guess my fears were unfounded and the musketeer was a waste. I hope that I didn't set us back too far.------------------
"Bonjour, you cheese-eatin' surrender-monkeys." |
Scouse Gits
Settler
b.02-15-99
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posted February 05, 2001 15:52
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skrobism - only invincible against Barbarians - any AI piece could blow it away with no problem -- an important distinction!------------------
____________
Scouse Git[1] "CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor
"The Great Library must be built!"
"A short cut has to be challenging,
were it not so it would be 'the way'." - Paul Craven |
Scouse Gits
Settler
b.02-15-99
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posted February 06, 2001 07:35
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SG[1]'s v2.42 OCC Succession Log (Part III)1800 - Raw production only 32 shields - 4 supported units - need another forest asap. (Note to self - Find player that didn't turn the Forests to Plains and the river squares to Forests and forcibly re-educate him!) Pollution is already at a high level, our infrastructure is not yet complete, we only have two caravans in the bank and we are researching Rocketry! This is going to be tricky. Thebes demands both Dye & Copper - might be useful. What are the chances of buying a non-Engineer or two? How the hell do you rush a Diplo with a production of 28!!?? Should I tell them that I'm sick and have to miss my turn? Would they notice if I cheated up a few minor terrain changes? ... My offering to the Deity of OCC ... 1802 - slowed science to 4 turns ...
1804 - River square now has Railroad ... German Fighter sighted - this is going to be a close run thing ...
1806 - Rocketry -> Nuclear Power; Pollution
1808 - Copper & Dye to Thebes (demanded), 236g each; New Forest completed production now 31+4 ; Crank up the Science and lets go for it ...
1810 - Nuclear Power -> The Laser (Space not offered); Pollution clear, both Engineers free food deficit only 2; Engineers build road for Rifle - if there is ever another Pollution free turn they can put in a Fort ...
1812 - Factory;
1814 - The Laser -> Space Flight;
1816 - Galleon disbands into Man Plant;
1818 - Manufacturing Plant -> production now 84 + 3 ; Start Hoover's
1820 - Space Flight -> Plastic;
1822 - APOLLO PROGRAM (You really do not want to know how close this was to being Hoover's  )
1828 - Plastics -> Superconductor; SSS#3
1836 = Superconductor -> Combined Arms (Fusion not offered); SSS#7
1844 - Combined Arms -> Fusion Power; SSS#11
1850 - Germans demand Superconductor - cancel Alliance when I say no; SSS#14 We get Nuclear Fusion next turn and can then concentrate on cash for rushing the Components and Modules - we only have 4 Freights and a Rifle - so this becomes my successor's headache! -------------------------- I haven't sat down and actually done the sums - so I'm not sure whether it is even possible to get the 9 bits in 9 turns with these resources - good luck skrobism. ------------------
____________
Scouse Git[1] "CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor
"The Great Library must be built!"
"A short cut has to be challenging,
were it not so it would be 'the way'." - Paul Craven |
Paul
Emperor
Zwolle, The Netherlands
Mar 99
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posted February 06, 2001 13:22
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Website updated. |
skrobism
Warlord
MKE,WI,USA
Oct 2000
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posted February 06, 2001 13:33
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I got the save. Looks like it's crunch time. I hope that I don't let our civ down.------------------
"Bonjour, you cheese-eatin' surrender-monkeys." |
Carolus Rex
King
Sweden
b.02-15-99
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posted February 07, 2001 08:38
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Interesting game, thanks to all involved players!If you have room for one more in the next game I would like to join. I'm not up to date regarding OCC, but know where to look. Besides, probably makes it more fun (at least more challenging) if all are not crème de la crème OCCers! Carolus |
Scouse Gits
Settler
b.02-15-99
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posted February 12, 2001 13:11
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Hellooooo ... Skrobism is there any life there?
Or did the Religious Fanatics come boiling out of the South before we launched - always a possibility with a city sited apparently between two Barb spawn points!------------------
____________
Scouse Git[1] "CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor
"The Great Library must be built!"
"A short cut has to be challenging,
were it not so it would be 'the way'." - Paul Craven |
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